2.0 bus eng. w/ 1.7 heads - possible?
 

That pretty much sums up my question. Can I switch the rods or something (from the 1.7) to make it work?

I got a 1.7 to use while I'm rebuilding the 2.0. When I picked the 1.7 it seemed fine. However, once I got it home and lowered it off the truck, the engine spilt about 2 cups of water out of the intake (or where that used to be). I figure the engine is shot but will the heads work (after refreshing) with the 2.0?

Thanks. SmileWavy

oh, any advice/tips/suggestions on a cam for this bad larry?

The heads will work but you will need to have them opened up for the 94mm bore. The stock 1.7 is only 90mm.

Are you going to run carbs, dual, single? Or you want to run FI? All of that is a consideration when choosing the cam. If you are going to run dual carbs, I would run a Web cam 86a or 86b cam. Depends on how much power you want or how you are going to drive it.

Semi-street legal - hahahaa.

But seriously, not really into auto-x and don't get to the track much, unfortunately so that leaves hard street driving. I mean not crazy driving or anything but you know...a corner or two at speed does wonders for the spirit.

As far as power, if I can get to what was original in a 2.0 then that should be good for now. What's your guess on that, assuming I can get the 1.7 heads to 94mm? Assuming almost everything else will be stock.

well, Jerry...

from the situation you describe (rebuilding 2.0, need interim engine) i'd try to salvage the 1.7 without taking it apart. that is, why waste money on an engine you are going to replace anyway? so if i was you, i'd try to get the 1.7 running with minimum of input ($$); maybe the engine is in good enough condition to still run as an interim engine without splitting the case/buying heads/machining heads. invest that $ into the new engine. maybe you'll be truckin'.... err, 914ing soon.

jamcleod - you're a riot man!! Good GD refs too.

I think I may take your advice. I'll post a pic of the 1.7 engine (I have to reduce the file size). Its in rough shape.

Anyway,

Here's the pic:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1068754366.jpg

The water poured out from the top, right where what's left of the FI is. How bad is that? We'll see I guess...

Machining is required to get 1.7 heads to fit onto 2.0 cylinders. Specifically, machining of the heads. The only other way I know of is to split the case, and use 1.7 crank and rods as well as the pistons and cylinders.

Oh, or you could try to find some 90mm pistons (maybe oversize Bug ones??) with the correct crown height or pin height to work on the 2.0 crank/rods. Then use 1.7 cylinders. Fun fun!

None of that will get you power equivalent to a "real" 2.0 engine, IMHO. The little valves and the ultra-low compression Bus cylinders are both gonna kill any hope of power. And the original Bus cam may very well be even milder than the 914 one. The 2.0 Buses used that very Bus motor with valves the same size as the 1.7 914 (or were they a touch smaller?) and only made 67 HP. A far cry from the 914 2.0's 95 HP.

Go with big valves (stock 2.0 size or maybe a bit more?) and high compression (8.5:1 or so, run 91 octane) and then Bus internals will probably get to or slightly exceed the 914's output. It certainly should with any cam other than the original Bus cam.

--DD

Dave,

What's your prognosis on this engine. Water in the engine = no good, right? Also water = rebuild?

If you had this engine, what would you do? Try to figure out what will make it run like jamcleod suggested?

Thank you.

Dependa on how desparate I was... Water sitting inside the engine is not a very good sign. If it was only in the intake, that can be survived reasonably. If it was in the crankcase, that's more problemmatical. Inside the cylinders is somewhat typical and will sometimes be too much of a problem without tearing the thing down.

--DD

Is there anyway I can figure this out?

I tried to turn it over by hand - couldn't do it.
I tried to turn it over by wrench - not enough leverage.

Could I connect power and fuel to it somehow and see if that works?

Spray some PB Blaster in the spark plug holes and let it sit for a few days. Then Pour some marvel Mystery Oil in the spark plug holes. Let that sit for a day or two and then try to turn it over my hand. If the engine is frozen, probably due to rust or foreign debris in the way. Tear down time.....

Call me crazy but could I use about a tablespoon of automtic transmission fluid as well?

I seem to remember hearing that somewhere but before I do...what do you (the members of this board) think of that?

Thanks.

Oh Boy...
I don't know how many times I've done that. At least twice in the last 2 weeks.
Free engine? Awesome, I bet it'll run just like it is....psssh.
Now I have 2 engines torn all the way down on the floor of my 'garage'. One bad crank, 3 Bad pistons, its fun to break the cams though, one bad case- barely enough good stuff to make one engine.
Take the spark plugs out first, thats for sure.
Then really, you gotta remove the heads for even an Idea of what going on inside. It only takes a half hour or so, maybe 45, minutes to pull em' off. If you can't turn the engine over with the heads removed, well...you could take the p/c's off, only another 15 minutes of work.
If you can't turn it over with the p/c's off...
Let us know what happens.
Bob O
70' 914

Bob O,

I plan on doing both, the Mystery Oil and if that don't do it then I'll take your suggestion (and honestly if that doesn't work I'd have to tear it down anyway - right?).

I guess I was hoping there'd be more compatibility between engines. And the more I think about, even if the heads did fit, the engine wouldn't be able to breathe from the smaller valves (right?)

Actually, maybe we could mix and match even further - what have you got, engine wise?

I had water in a 1.7 i got. Tried oil and the like. When I took the heads off there was huge flakes of rust in couple of the cylinders. I broke all the fins off 2 cyls to get them off the pistons.

luckily the bottom end was undamaged and usable.

What I did this week was type 1 bug engines for my 69' single cab. Might get it running tomorrow..
I do have a 1.7/1.8 (bus) Longblock at a friends house. It actually looks promising, its does turn over and has compression, and no endplay. Someone gave it to him, he dont want it so I inherit it I s'pose.
However, the shop I used to work for has piles of bus type4 engines, probably 8 or 10 just layin' around in different stages of disassemble...some complete. I could scrounge if you need something, like pistons/cyls.
If I was you I'd have a look inside the heads, see whats up. If the cyl's are rusty hone/replace them (used are pretty cheap), and from that point you can check out the bottom end pretty easily and feel good about driving the thing for a while.
Bob O

Bob O,

Are you suggesting I ought to take the heads off, if for no other reason than to see what I'm working with regardless. And if I see rust or excessive carbon build up or whatever that looks unserviceable then start from there?

How about I take the heads and p/c off the 1.7 and replace them with the 2.0 stuff? Would that be worth while? If I'm not mistaken the bus heads don't breathe that well either but hey...

Kinda what I was thinking, I think the relief from seeing the cylinders aren't rusty and doing the push rod tube seals would be enough reason. And from what I know you're right, the BUS heads have small valves. You can stll drive, especially if its a temporary motor in some way.
Heck I'd bolted a 40HP bug engine in my 356 Coupe when I was rebuilding the S-90. No shame here.
Do whatever works, but the key is that it actually works, and its possiblea hand-me-down or mystery engine that had water come out of it may not work well or very long.
I've been known to find out what 'doesnt work' by trial and error.
(anyone run a hydraulic cam with solid lifters lately?)
I *think* you can bolt the 2 liter heads onto a 1.8..maybe 1.7?
I dont know, my 914 is only my second type4 engine..havent found all the ins/outs of them yet.
I'd like to know what you end up with, so I dont have to ask the same questions next month!
Bob O