Has anyone used Webcam's replacement for the stock f/i camshaft?

Alfred1 · 12-14-2003, 08:58 AM

If so, how well does it work? Webcam's stock-grind cam along with their lifters would be considerably less expensive than the OEM cam and lifters ($270 vs. $400) so it's tempting to go Webcam but I remember that the Webcam's timing specs are considerably different from the timing specs that the Haynes manual lists for the stock cam.

DuckRyder · 12-14-2003, 09:15 AM

Got one in the garage, we should know soon.

Bleyseng · Bleyseng's Garage

Brad Anders has one in his 2.0l motor. PM him on how it works.

Geoff

Jake Raby · 12-14-2003, 08:10 PM

Yep have used them alot...

Great camshaft, but the stock profile sucks a big one in all respects... Kills efficiency and heats up heads like a Volcano.... Atleast use a 91 with solid lifters or a 73.....

Alfred1 · 12-14-2003, 08:46 PM

Jake, I'm going to be keeping the d-jet so stock specs are a must for me.

sixbanger · 12-15-2003, 05:14 AM

I want to put a stock 1.7 in my kit car and want to change to carbs.Will I need to change the cam?What will it run like if I don't.?
Will smaller carbs work any better?

sammyg2 · 12-15-2003, 06:42 AM

The stock cam will work with carbs but you will not see much of a performance increase if any. The stock cam is designed to be very mild so that it will work well with the fuel injection. This limits the rpm range and flow.

in order to take full advantage of carburetors (which flow better than the stock F.I.) you should go with a hotter cam with more lift, duration, and slightly more overlap.

mwyatt · 12-15-2003, 07:13 AM

I rebuilt my 2.0 with WebCam #73, Euro pistons and cylinders, and re-used the stock FI. While you do need to play with the adjustment of the FI to get it right, you shouldn't need to modify the system in any way. I've been driving with this motor in the car for two years with full reliability and a nice power increase over stock.

Alfred1 · 12-15-2003, 07:23 AM

mwyatt, can you tell me more about how your car runs? How does it idle? Does it pull smoothly when accelerating? What are the changes from the stock cam - more power in the top end? Thanks.

Bleyseng · Bleyseng's Garage

Do a search on this site for posts on the #73 cam. IIRC all you have to do is richen the idle up to make it run right but that screws you if you have to have a smog test. Has better acceleration and top end over the stock cam.

Geoff

seventythree · 12-15-2003, 08:15 AM

I used Webcam #73 in my 2.0L rebuild without any modifications or adjustments to the stock F.I. setup. So far, I have put 50K trouble free miles on that car. Idle is silky smooth and there are no hesitations at take off. IMO, the MPS has the most significant impact on how the motor runs, especially, on its around the town drivability. On a related note, when I connect a vacuum gage to the intake plenum, the needle jumps around by about 4 in-Hg around 10 inches at idle. Among other things, this may be the result of more overlap, possibly due to the increased lift of the Webcam. There is no evident performance or drivability issues as a result of this, but I can't help but wonder what this does to the old on fatigued MPS diaphragm!

As to what impact the Webcam #73 has on performance, most owners won't know for sure. They will be comparing old, worn out engines to a fresh rebuild. Shop owners or professionals, on the other hand, would be able to convey a more accurate comparison.

Jason Porter · 12-15-2003, 08:16 AM

Just putting this out there, but anyone switching to/running carbs should know that there is a split duration camshaft available for the 914's. This actually keeps the exhaust valve open longer, which somewhat counter-acts the poor exhaust poor angle design of the type 4 head.

FYI, the split-durations cam specs are as follows:

Intake: .500 Lift - 284 Duration - 250 Duration at .050 Lift

Exhaust: .500 Lift - 300 Duration - 260 Duration at .050 Lift

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

The whole Web #73 thing is very curious. Seventythree is the only one I know of who has run the stock FI as-is with it. Some have had to adjust the MPS and the idle mixture to get it to work, while others have been unable to get it to work well even making such adjustments. It seems like there is enough difference from motor to motor, or enough difference in what "runs well" means from person to person, that using a 73 with FI is a bit of a crapshoot...

--DD

Jake Raby · 12-15-2003, 08:52 AM

Altitude and density make a difference.... I have seen this from dynoing engines with a73, then shipping them to other areas all set up. My set up goes away..

I have a cam that works great with stock FI, and is not an off the shelf web grind... I weeked the stocker and made it work much better and run cooler. It will be available in February with my other goodies.

Alfred1 · 12:50 PM

Jake, do you have a dyno graph that you can post of a stock 2.0 that uses your d-jet cam? Here's a graph (rear wheel hp) of a stock 2.0 with the OEM cam.

mwyatt · 12-15-2003, 11:27 AM

Alfred,
My car with the #73 WebCam idles and runs well. The idle is perhaps not as smooth as a completely stock car, but it never stalls or sputters. The difference in idle in my opinion, is negligible. The car runs just as smoothly as it did with the stock motor. However, there is a 10-20% increase in power. Top speed has increased by about 15 mph. I don't know for sure, but my mechanic (who owns the same car with the same motor), estimates 0-60 times in the mid 6's. The other thing you'll notice, is the bark out of the exhaust pipe. Again, there is no backfiring or sputtering, but the exhaust note is more aggressive (although not much louder than stock). I did make some other modifications at the same time we rebuilt the motor however. I added a high volume oil pump, and had my flywheel lightened by Rimco. I have since added an Accusump, because I was pulling the engine dry on fast corners (this has more to do with sticky tires and a stiff suspension than it does with the actual motor). Before the Accusump I tried the Weltmeister tuna can, but the problem remained (you get what you pay for). The car is my daily driver in the spring and summer, and it is also used for autocross. I've put about 6000 hard miles on the car since the engine was rebuilt, with 0 reliability issues (except for ruining a pair of brand new motor mounts at around 4000 miles - too many hard launches). I also use Mobil 1. After about 3000 miles, we removed the head gaskets to increase the compression ratio even further. This produced a small increase in power, and an even more aggressive exhaust note. Note that I did not get the heads ported or polished, because in my opinion this will actually decrease engine power in our cars. Hope this helps.

Alfred1 · 12-15-2003, 12:06 PM

Thanks for the info, mwyatt. I also have a '73 2.0 motor and I'm trying to figure out what kind of motor I should build. I just ordered the Grassroots Motorsports 914 project magazines to see how they built their 2.0 with d-jet.

Jake Raby · 12-15-2003, 12:44 PM

I cannot post the graph but I can email it to someone that can....

DuckRyder · 12-15-2003, 12:46 PM

I'll post it for you Jake. E-Mail it to me

Bleyseng · Bleyseng's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by mwyatt
Note that I did not get the heads ported or polished, because in my opinion this will actually decrease engine power in our cars. Hope this helps. [/B]

Boy, this hasn't been my experience at all. Ported the heads professionaly really helps the motor to breath and make more hp even with the FI.
Where and how did you figure this one out?

Geoff