OT: Observing Decline

[Alfred1]

Technology - AFP

Germany lagging in high-tech, industry says on eve of CeBIT fair
Wed Mar 17, 2:48 PM ET Add Technology - AFP to My Yahoo!

HANOVER, Germany (AFP) - Once renowned for its technological prowess, Germany is only gradually emerging from a high-tech slump and is slipping behind most major nations, an industry group said.

The German computer, telecommunications and new media association BITKOM said on the eve of the opening here of the world's largest technology fair, the CeBIT, that the sectors' growth stagnated last year and would reach only 2.5 percent in 2004 to 131.4 billion euros (160 billion dollars) in turnover.

The year 2005 will only bring 3.7 percent growth in Europe's biggest economy, the group predicted.

Those figures compare with the 4.3-percent global growth for this year and the six percent in 2005 forecast by the European Information Technology Observatory.

The market in Western Europe as a whole is also growing faster than Germany and is expected to increase turnover by 3.1 percent in 2004 and 4.4 percent next year. Spain has the strongest prospects with a 5.5 percent rise in sales awaited this year.

BITKOM President Willi Berchtold attributed Germany's relative weakness to a number of factors including a chronic lack of highly skilled workers, slipping educational standards and increasingly restrictive loan policies at commercial banks.

"We won't be seeing the unique growth rates of the boom years in the late 1990s and 2000 any time soon, if ever again," Berchtold said.

"There is a series of unresolved social and economic problems -- just look at the rigid labor and wage system, the lack of educational and training opportunities. That all puts the brakes on growth."

The high-tech industry traditionally looks to the CeBIT to jumpstart the business year, offering a chance for more than 6,000 exhibitors from 64 countries to unveil their newest wizardry and gadgets.

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is set to inaugurate the event Wednesday evening with Sony President Kunitake Ando, and the doors will open to the public Thursday morning.

But in line with the business trend, the number of German exhibitors has fallen this year amid a further wave of insolvencies and cost-cutting.

However foreign countries, and Asian nations in particular, are due to be out in force with Taiwan sending 709 companies, the United States 222, Britain 198, China 189, South Korea (news - web sites) 167 and Hong Kong 140 firms. Asian visitors are expected to make up a full 15 percent of the crowd.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040317/tc_afp/germany_it_technology_040317194837

It's all that "new thinking" that's causing the decline.

[Alfred1]

Technology - SiliconValley.com

U.S. cars top European in reliability
Tue Mar 9, 6:47 AM ET

By Matt Nauman, Mercury News

For the first time in 25 years, European cars aren't as reliable as those made by U.S. automakers, Consumer Reports magazine says in its annual auto issue that hits newsstands today.
Asian automakers continue to lead the industry, the magazine says, but domestics topping the Europeans is a sea change.

Especially considering the high quality of cars the Europeans have been known for, "this year they seem to have dropped considerably," said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' auto test department and head of its 327-acre testing facility in Connecticut.

In all, only eight of 41 European cars and trucks tested by Consumer Reports' editors and evaluated by their readers earned the coveted "recommended" check mark.

They were: BMW 3-Series, Porsche Boxster, Saab 9-3 and 9-5, Volkswagen Passat six-cylinder, Volvo S60, S80 and V70.

European bestsellers such as the Audi A4, BMW 5- and 7-Series, Land Rover Discovery, Mercedes-Benz C-, E- and M-Classes, Mini Cooper, Volvo XC90 and VW Golf, Jetta and New Beetle aren't recommended.

In a telephone conference with reporters, Champion revealed a startling statistic: a new 2003 BMW 7-Series sedan has more problems than an 8-year-old Lexus LS 400 sedan.

Consumer Reports confirms a growing awareness of less-than-perfect quality with the cars and trucks made by European automakers.

Last year, J.D. Power and Associates' Vehicle Dependability Study of 3-year-old vehicles showed "substantial quality gaps" between domestic and European models. On average, European vehicles had 49 more problems per 100 vehicles than did U.S. cars and trucks at three years of ownership.

Will growing awareness of quality problems begin to affect the reputation and sales of European cars?

"I'm sure it will," Champion said. "People who buy these expensive cars tend to be busy people. Any down time in their day is a big annoyance to them."

A Mercedes-Benz spokeswoman said via e-mail that her company wouldn't comment on the findings until it got more specific details from Consumer Reports. A call to the U.S. headquarters of Volkswagen in Auburn Hills, Mich., wasn't returned Monday.

Most of the problems with European cars, according to Champion and Rik Paul, the magazine's automotive editor, relate to electrical systems and power components such as seats.

European brands such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi "do tend to make very complicated vehicles," Champion said. Still, vehicles from Lexus and Infiniti offer similar complexity without similar problems, he said.

And, Paul noted, the problem more precisely is an apparent lack of progress rather than lack of quality.

The number of problems with European vehicles actually fell from about 21 per 100 vehicles in 2002 to 20 in 2003. Domestic vehicles, however, fell from about 21 in 2002 to about 18 in 2003.

The average for all vehicles in the survey is 17 problems per 100 vehicles, while Asian models only have 12 problems.

Consumer Reports has been issuing unbiased, independent evaluations of automobiles since 1936, said James Guest, president and chief executive of the Consumers Union, the non-profit publisher of the magazine.

It takes no advertising and buys the vehicles it tests anonymously, Guest said. Consumer Report spends $1.9 million a year buying the cars and trucks its editors tests. Reliability data comes from a survey sent to its 4.1 million subscribers. This year's issue is based on the 675,000 responses that were returned.

A 2003 Forrester survey showed Consumer Reports to be the second-most-influential source of information for car buyers after dealership personnel. A CNW Marketing/Research study showed that more than 40 percent of car shoppers use Consumer Reports before buying a car or truck.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/sv/20040309/tc_sv/uscarstopeuropeaninreliability

[DDS]

That's it. I'm buying an Aztek.

[Bleyseng]

Alfred the German cars especially the MB and BMW are very complex cars which is demanded by the buyers.
Sure a Nova is a great little car but no way its it comparable.
Consumers Reports loves cars that I would NEVER buy or drive!

So what....

Buy yourself a KIA then.

Geoff

[SGB]

Measuring "quality" of a vehicle in a statistical sense is just a measure of a series of related and unrelated probabilities that one of the many , many parts and systems of parts will fail. This can happen because
1. It was faulty to begain with
2. It was incorrectly attached to the rest of the car

Standardized component sources like Bosch reduce the likelyhood of no. 1.
Car assembly is performed exclusively by automated processes these days. Humans just feed and tend to the machines. If the car building machine (Like the Mercedes plant I toured here in Alabama) is built with stout components and continueously recalibrated to keep all the machinery aligned, at will construct "high quality" cars of whatever nameplate- Kia, Mercedes, even {shudder} Porsche depend on the sales recovering the cost of building the factory before the design has lost desirability, and this requires that major working parts usually last at least that long. It becomes an analysis of cost/failure/time and different manufacturers find comfort at different points in balance. A yugo appeared to be pretty crummy from the introduction, and it proved true. A Kia appears to be pretty acceptable FWIW so far.
I guess this should all lead to a point. I think it reflects American's preoccupation with *bling*. And maybe how the car builders are trying to maximize profits by creating ever blingier stuff instead of better driving or safer or more enviro friendly cars,
'cause thats what Americans want, bless 'em.

[Alfred1]

There has very clearly been a cultural shift for the worse in Germany. The German car industry and other areas of their society (like the educational system) have never before been in such a sorry state. Hell, even their national soccer team is lame now and their trains crash on a regular basis. One of the articles I posted above states that an eight year old Lexus has fewer problems than a new Mercedes - Mercedes used to be the cream of the crop for decades. The Germans should have set a "restore point" somewhere between Johannes Gutenberg and Max Planck so that they could go back to a cultural mind-set that works.

[Bleyseng]

Oh, like what George Bush is trying to do in the US?

[dynamical-duck]

Originally posted by Alfred1
There has very clearly been a cultural shift for the worse in Germany. The German car industry and other areas of their society (like the educational system) have never before been in such a sorry state. Hell, even their national soccer team is lame now and their trains crash on a regular basis. One of the articles I posted above states that an eight year old Lexus has fewer problems than a new Mercedes - Mercedes used to be the cream of the crop for decades. The Germans should have set a "restore point" somewhere between Johannes Gutenberg and Max Planck so that they could go back to a cultural mind-set that works.

I'm probably going to just get banned for this, but I feel that the late 1930s were the golden age for the German people. For Germans, not Jews, that is. If we could go back to that time WITHOUT the Holocaust and WITHOUT the Second World War, I would move there instantly.

Please just delete this post if you find it too offensive and don't ban me.

[Alfred1]

Originally posted by Bleyseng
Oh, like what George Bush is trying to do in the US?

Don't worry - your President can't do much that the people don't want him to do.

[Alfred1]

Originally posted by dynamical-duck
I'm probably going to just get banned for this, but I feel that the late 1930s were the golden age for the German people. For Germans, not Jews, that is. If we could go back to that time WITHOUT the Holocaust and WITHOUT the Second World War, I would move there instantly.

Please just delete this post if you find it too offensive and don't ban me.

The period that I mentioned, from Gutenberg to Planck, is about a 500 year time span when the German people contributed much to math and science and art.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by SGB
... parts and systems of parts will fail. This can happen because
1. It was faulty to begain with
2. It was incorrectly attached to the rest of the car

Don't forget 3) It was abused after it was installed.

--DD

[Alfred1]

To be fair, there are still innovations coming from the German car industry. For example, the car magazines rave about VW/Audi's new Direct Shift Gearbox. There just isn't the consistent excellence that they used to be known for.

[Bleyseng]

Well, F. Piech just left so what do you expect!
I don't know about the 30's being the Golden Age for Germany. That was still the time of breadlines and high unemployment.
George Bush isn't doing what the people want, hell he does whatever the christan right wing wants!
Geoff

[dynamical-duck]

Originally posted by Alfred1
The period that I mentioned, from Gutenberg to Planck, is about a 500 year time span when the German people contributed much to math and science and art.

Allow me to elaborate: the 30s were the period when Germans started to actively preserve and promote German culture, German values, and German nationalism, for Germans by Germans.

Ever since the war, German culture, and European culture in general, has been sliding ever downward, and as a result, everything German has suffered and faded, including the German committment to quality and excellence in automobiles. (Look, I'm on topic!)

I believe that the only way to effectively restore our cultural heritage of Gutenberg-Planck is through National Socialism.


Bleyseng, the 30s were the times of breadlines and high employments in America. By 1937, Germany was almost completely debt-free and prosperity and happiness was rocketing upwards. (Quite a change from the poverty-stricken, miserable, ruined Germany of 1932.)

Of course, the Jews didn't exactly rocket upwards... That's the only thing I despise about Nazi Germany. I mean, it's all right by me to make Germany all German, but mass murder is unacceptable. Emigration to Israel would have been a much better (although more impractial) option in my eyes.

Oh well, at least Germans still had enough culture by the 70s to make my beloved 914...

[Alfred1]

Originally posted by Bleyseng
George Bush isn't doing what the people want, hell he does whatever the christan right wing wants!
Geoff

There is very little in this society the way we "Christian, right-wingers" want it. What are we, 10% or so of the population? Too bad we can't take 10% of the land in North America or Europe and set up a country to our liking. Bavaria is about as close a society as I can think of - speaking of which, during the last German federal election, the Bavarian premier, Edmund Stoiber, got pelted with batteries and eggs by the rest of the stupid, leftist Germans that want things just the way they are. There has been a complete reversal in the way Germans think in the last 50 years or so and even though it's true that correlation doesn't necessarily prove causation, I'm convinced that that change in thinking is the reason for their decline.

[914GT]

Originally posted by Bleyseng
George Bush isn't doing what the people want, hell he does whatever the christan right wing wants!
Geoff

Care to provide an example?

[genrex]

Probably best not to... thanks.

Political and religious stuff belongs in the Off-Topic forum.

And besides, it's actually thinly-disguised class warfare.

[Bleyseng]

The latest FCC indecenting rulings and fines since the JJ incident are one. Pressure from the White House is why according to the radio jockeys. ie Howard Stern, Tom Lycis, etc

oh, I did listen to parts of his speech to the Evangelical Convention last week on NPR too.
yep, you 10% want to run the morality of the other 90%

[Alfred1]

Originally posted by Bleyseng
The latest FCC indecenting rulings and fines since the JJ incident are one. Pressure from the White House is why according to the radio jockeys. ie Howard Stern, Tom Lycis, etc

oh, I did listen to parts of his speech to the Evangelical Convention last week on NPR too.
yep, you 10% want to run the morality of the other 90%

Amazing what you people can't live without. Hmmn, democracy sucks.

[SGB]

The quest to have others understand what you hold as "right" is pretty futile. Concentrate on figuring it out by your own standards, do your best to live by those standards, drive your 914, and be happy.