Heat Exchangers

[kmhemi]

I have a 76 2.0 motor. My problem is that I have what I "think" are 1.7 or 1.8 SS heat exchangers. Is there any disadvantage to running them instead of the 2.0 exchangers? I just rebuilt the entire engine and added flat top pistons, a warm cam and dual carbs. my plan is to run a dual twin tip style header.

[tat2dphreak]

if they are the SS H/Es, there's no disadvantage...

[kmhemi]

they are Stainless steel. Should I look for a set of 2.0 exchangers or just buy they headers for a 1.8?

[tat2dphreak]

1st, what are you calling "headers" if you are talking about real headers, you won't be using the H/Es at all... and you won't have heat in your car...

if you are talking about the muffler assembly(on the end of the H/Es, at the rear) then you can just use a 1.8 muffler..

the thing about them being SS: all of the SS H/Es are the same diameter, and larger than the 1.8 or 2.0 regular H/Es... so they are as good as it gets without getting a real header(like the tangerine racing header)

[gopack]

I have seen on the Tangerine racing website that they have an optional heat exchanger for their header system. Any one out there have any experience with these? It seems like at least I could still get defrost and some heat out of them. The only downside that I can see is they are mighty expensive, and may be too loud for street use. Has anyone heard these things with the phase 9 siencer and the quiet can? Their web site says <89 dB.


http://www.tangerineracing.com/Super_Header.htm

[tat2dphreak]

they are QUITE expensive from what I remember... but from what I've heard, they are quiet enough for street(still loud though) ... Jake swears by the headers for performance though! are they worth the $$$? probably not, for a street car... race car? yes, probably so!

I forgot they added a heat box to the new ones... supposed to be very good

[Scooter311]

What's up Doods
So you say the stainless HEs are largest diameter, and that the 1.7/1.8/2.0 SS HEs are that same diam? I never knew that, cool. I know that the 1.7/1.8 he's are bent 'up' at the ends, whereas the 2.0s are straight, and you need the matching muffler/hanger for whichever setup you use.
SMALL HIJACK HERE SORRY!
Hey tat2d, what are your motor specs - I'm building a 2056 as well from a 2.0 core - SS HEs and 40idfs . What motor did you replace, and have you had a chance to drive it, to see how much different it is? I'm replacing an anemic 1.7, and hope to gawd it's better than the last one - I was getting passed by furniture trucks driven by elderly women, on Sunday mornings.

[tat2dphreak]

the diameters are as follows:
1.7/1.8 < 2.0 < all SSI 1.7/1.8/2.0

scooter:
a fellow group member built the engine, I bought it from a friend of his... it uses a stock 2.0 cam(I think), not sure on the compression ratio either I will be using 40idfs too... (125 mains, 60 idles, f11 eml, 200 air)
I had a 1.7 with compression issues in my old car, the one I pulled out of this one was a 1.8 BUS engine that had seen better days... this engine sounds like GREAT!, esp, compared to those 2!
I have not been able to drive yet though... no interior or brakes installed yet! I can hardly wait!!!
I was only running on 3 cylinders(almost) in the 1.7... and it wasn't as bad as what you are describing... it was hardly good... but hardly getting passed going up hill either!

I wish you the best of luck, there are tons of people here that can help if you have trouble with the rebuild, you can also ask shoptalk forums... lotsa DIY rebuilders there!

[Scooter311]

Yeah, the 1.7 actually ran really nice, very smooth, no smoke, only the smallest leak, not enough to hit the driveway even. But I had to really scream it to go anywhere, don't get me wrong, it sounded really cool being wound out, and was zippy, but sheesh, I really DID get outgunned by a furniture truck. Maybe it was empty!
So far, my specs - 96mm P/Cs, all new stainless steel valves , guides, high rpm springs, rocker spacers, 3 angle valve job, slight exhaust porting (killed all my cash on those stupid heads), european "H" cam, and 40idfs (that I hope will work after I took every stinkin' piece of brass out of 'em and cross my fingers that I put everything back in right).
I'm hoping for 8.5-1 compression with some tinkering, (still want to use reasonably-priced gas, if it still exists), and I have a brand new 009 dizzy with pointless and a CDI, someday to have a Mallory.
I'm very curious how each of our setups work, including which exhausts we are all using (my setup came with a BN monza monstrosity).
Good luck on yours, keep posting your progress!
Jeff

[Jake Raby]

The Tangerine with the quiet can is quieter than A Bursch... I have two Tangerine systems.

[silver2.0]

When I aquired my car it came with a set of Stainless heat exchangers, but when I went to bolt them up, they were all wrong. It had been converted from a 1.7 to a 2.0. The diameters are different, (smaller). If I remember correctly, it was only smaller on one end, maybe the muffler end, and also the muffler is going to be different, because it has a kick upwards on the 1.7 and 1.8 heat exchangers, where the 2.0's go straight out.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The diameter of the pipes should be the same on all of the stainless-steel four-cylinder 914 heat exchangers made by SSI. The differences are that the 1.7 version has that "kick-up" near the back end, and the muffler flanges for the two exchangers wind up being closer together when the exchangers are mounted on the car than the 2.0 ones do. You cannot bolt a 2.0 muffler to 1.7 heat exchangers, at least not without a lot of hacking and bending. Ditto the muffler hanger.

Using a 1.7 SSI on a 2.0 motor should give up very little if any power to a "real" 2.0 SSI. I would guess there is some loss, but I would not be at all surprised to find that the difference is less than can be reliably measured.

Then again, it might be nice to see if a 1.7 or 74 1.8 owner wants to trade some new 2.0 SSIs for your 1.7 ones. Most particularly if you have a 2.0 muffler and muffler hanger already! The 1.7 SSI has been NLA for quite a few years now, while there are at least a couple hundred sets of 2.0 SSIs still warehoused. The 1.7 version will let the 1.7 owner use his muffler and muffler hanger, which is nice for him...

--DD

[silver2.0]

I don't know what brand mine were, but the reason I sold mine on ebay, instead of using them was that the diameters were too small. Like 20 percent smaller. Your probably right, you wouldn't notice much power difference, but I didn't want to buy a new muffler, and have smaller outlets too.

[kmhemi]

I guess I have my terminology wrong. I guess I should say Muffler instead of headers. What I am looking for is a nice set of the chrome twin tips like the Monza exhaust. I like the way the monza sounds too. I havent checked pelican yet for exhaust. This is where I will buy them if we have a twin tip like monza available.

[lmcchesney]

Scooter, you may consider using your 1.7L heads with increased valve diameters and some porting to build your 2056. You would be able to use your SS HE's and muffler with your new engine. Please read the following regarding static vs dynamic compression ratios. http://kb-silvolite.com/news.php?action=read&N_id=30&PHPSESSID=ff2f0613ddb93b6a6036740a04a96843

[cary]

Originally posted by Dave at Pelican Parts
Then again, it might be nice to see if a 1.7 or 74 1.8 owner wants to trade some new 2.0 SSIs for your 1.7 ones. Most particularly if you have a 2.0 muffler and muffler hanger already! The 1.7 SSI has been NLA for quite a few years now, while there are at least a couple hundred sets of 2.0 SSIs still warehoused. The 1.7 version will let the 1.7 owner use his muffler and muffler hanger, which is nice for him...

--DD

Dave, I have a perfect set of 1.7/1.8 SSI's that I bought on Evil Bay a couple years ago. I haven't used than on the 1.7 in my son's 1.7, because they're like new. Plus after cleaning the ones on my son's car. It had SS ones under the grime.
I would love to trade them for a pair of 2.0's of equal condition.

I'll attach a couple JPEGS this afternoon.

Rebuilding a pedal cluster after breakfast.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

You might try the Classifieds BBS. And the one over on the 914club website.

Oh, I realized something when paging through this topic again just now... The original poster has a 76 2.0... All of the comments we have been making about the "2.0" exhaust really only applies to the 1973-74 2.0 exhaust; the 75-76 2.0 (also used on the 75+ 1.8s) flow significantly worse than any of the earlier exhausts. Any of the 70-74 exhausts should be an improvement over the stock 76 exhaust.

--DD