Wieltmiester Tuna Can still a problem

lmcchesney · lmcchesney's Garage

Just a quick note to let all know that the Wieltmiester Tuna Can available still has a excessively (.012") long pick-up tube. I just recieved mine from the host supplier and was lets say disappointed to find the one sent was one with extra long pick-up tube, and really disappointed that it occured despite my speaking with the PP representative at the time I ordered the item alerting to the existance of the maldesigned ones.
Oh well, we will mill the top and adjust.
L. McC

synthesis · 07-30-2004, 04:28 AM

how do you know if it is too long? does it bottom out on the cup?

I removed one from my old motor and it looked ok. was thinking of putting it on my new motor.

dr

ken180 · 07-30-2004, 07:05 AM

Yes - many of us have found they will not work.

The answer - ACCUSUMP

Ken

synthesis · 07-30-2004, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ken180
Yes - many of us have found they will not work.

The answer - ACCUSUMP

Ken

Got the 2 qt sitting in the car now. Going to plumb it in with the new coolers and filter. Its great for pre-oiling but I have heard differing opinions about how long it can really supply oil pressure in long sweeping corners.

I think the 2 qts would be expended in a few seconds if you really lost suction at the pickup. We'll find out soon.

dr

ken180 · 07-30-2004, 07:32 AM

I have not actually timed it - but...

When the oil is hot and you rev the motor up to fill it and then turn the key off to kill the motor then back on again, to activate the gauges, you can see the oil pressure gauge dropping - takes at least 10-15 seconds.

On the track I have been on some pretty big sweepers and have seen NO problem.

Ken

synthesis · 07-30-2004, 07:40 AM

The 10-15 seconds it takes for the pressure to bleed off when the motor is sitting still is a totally different condition compared to losing suction at the pickup at high rpm.

With the oil pump suddenly starved when its pumping a large volume of oil, the timeframe is probably much less.

Most hardcore racers usually end up going to a dry sump system eventually. I don't think any tuna can, accusump, deep sump or whatever can compare. Eventually I will probably go with a dry sump as well.

dr

ken180 · 07-30-2004, 07:57 AM

If the pump is turning, vary little oil from the accusump will bleed back thru the pump, most will go to the engine. Accusump sells a check valve depending on how you plumb the oil lines. I do not think you need a dry sump unless you want a bit more HP.

Ken

Conrad W Peden · Conrad W Peden's Garage

Since when was .012" long.

Seriously, can .012" make a diff.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by lmcchesney
...I just recieved mine from the host supplier and was lets say disappointed to find the one sent was one with extra long pick-up tube...

Grrrr.... I talked to Tom about this six months ago, and he said that he had b*tched at Weltmeister about the problem, and that the new kits were being shipped with the correct version.

Sorry, man--our supplier is screwing us over on this one.

I wonder if I can convince Tom that all of the ones that show up from WM have to be measured before they get shipped???

Dry sump: Ever see a dry-sump system installed with the stock cooling system? I haven't. I've seen plenty of "serious" 914 race cars, too. Most have stock cooling systems, and none or very very few of those have dry-sump oiling. Most have made modifications inside the crankcase (e.g., modified the windage tray), and/or run an oil trap or deep sump, and/or run an Accusump. Seems to work just fine for them.

Now the guys with 911 cooling have, for the most part, gone with dry-sump lubrication.

--DD

lmcchesney · lmcchesney's Garage

Dr,
When you attache the pick-up tube and assure it is advanced as far as possible. They, when attaching the tuna can, the can does not meet up with the gaskets.
Dave,
Small problem, but ... We milled 0.012" off the pick-up tube and then two gaskets and it fit fine. Hopefully, no problems after I run the oil through it.
I remember you had spoke of the problem when I ordered the can from PP and spoke to the representative that the problem exist. Oh well.
L. McC

COLDBASS · 08-02-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by synthesis
Got the 2 qt sitting in the car now. Going to plumb it in with the new coolers and filter. Its great for pre-oiling but I have heard differing opinions about how long it can really supply oil pressure in long sweeping corners.

I think the 2 qts would be expended in a few seconds if you really lost suction at the pickup. We'll find out soon.

dr

FWIW, I went this route (Accusump) as my motor was suffering from chronic oil starvation. Well after I ceased the #2 rod, I have now realized that the HD oil pump was too damn efficient. On a suggestion from another person, I shall install a Shadec (sp) oil pump (smaller) and modify the windage tray...

synthesis · 08-02-2004, 01:45 PM

Yes, I have Type I Schadek, full flow and modified windage tray as well.

dr

david c. · 08-03-2004, 10:22 PM

My tuna can was ordered through PP and it didn't even come close to fitting. I just put it back in the bag.

What is the approx cost for the accusump parts?

ken180 · 08-03-2004, 10:39 PM

Check - www.accusump.com. Then search theWEB for the best price.

COLDBASS - I do not see how your oil pump "was too damn efficient". If you had enough oil in the motor to fill the Accusump plus 2-3 quarts I can see no way you did not get oil to the bearings.

Even if the sump were pumped empty the accusump would supply oil to the bearings.

To avoid the Accusump taking in oil to soon I pressurize at 40 psi. This way there is at least 40psi diverted to the motor befor the Accusump starts to fill. I run the 2qt unit.

Ken

Ken

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by dave cardone
My tuna can was ordered through PP and it didn't even come close to fitting. I just put it back in the bag.

Then send it back! Or contact Jason about returning it.

It sounds like we need to keep beating on Weltmeister to make sure this problem gets corrected and stays corrected!!

--DD

COLDBASS · 08-04-2004, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ken180
Check - www.accusump.com. Then search theWEB for the best price.

COLDBASS - I do not see how your oil pump "was too damn efficient". If you had enough oil in the motor to fill the Accusump plus 2-3 quarts I can see no way you did not get oil to the bearings.

Even if the sump were pumped empty the accusump would supply oil to the bearings.

Ken

Prolonged sweeps/High volume pump, once dry the recovery was too damn long as the external oil cooler/lines were empty and these would fill before any oil reached the motor itself. The 2 quart unit probably only provides 1-1 1/4 quarts...

synthesis · 08-05-2004, 03:59 AM

If you have the accusump plumbed as canton outlines, the unit should discharge directly to the oil galley or sand plate if you have one, not to the oil coolers and lines first.

dr

COLDBASS · 08-05-2004, 01:10 PM

Yes, The Canton Technical Support folks approved my plumbing configuration. In Fact, they suggested that I drop their check valve from the configuration...

Zeke · 08-05-2004, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave cardone
My tuna can was ordered through PP and it didn't even come close to fitting. I just put it back in the bag.

What is the approx cost for the accusump parts?

You won't believe this, but I cut an 1/8th of an inch off my pickup tube before I was happy with the fit of the can to the case.

Depending on your stock pickup tube, another problem is having the tube poke out of the case square. Mine tended to want to be at a angle. I tried different tubes, but noen were much better.

The thing is kind of a POS, but wha'd ya gonna do? The idea is sound.

You guys are reminding me of why I'm happy to not be dealing with a VW motor anymore. You wanna race, put a 6 in it like MikeZ did to mine when he bought it.