911 heads

[morgan]

The April 2000 issue of "Total VW" features a street bug with a 2.4 L turbo type 4 with 911 heads. They don't really say enough about the conversion though. Just that it will do 0-60 in about 3.5 sec., it uses a belt for the custom cams and that it broke once but now it runs perfectly. There is a single tiny picture on the following page. see Russ fellows head transplant
http://www.johnmaherracing.co.uk/intheworks.htm

Also I found a picture of another 911 type 4 head transplant and a very brief discription at the bottom of the following page
http://www.telemacom.fr/bonekar/VolksWagen/TypeVier/us/Engine.htm

Does anyone have information on this? Any guess on what it would cost?
thanks
Morgan
1973 914 2.0L

[John Rogers]

I guess with enough money that could be done, but I guess it is a one-off done by the shop owner. A more economical way to get the best flowing heads would be to buy a set of Pauter's, but they have the type 1 exhaust location and for some racing organizations are not legal.

[mike mueller]

Too cool !!!, someones got a lot of time and money. I've read of someone using watercooled Subaru heads on a Type IV also.
One of the sites had a picture of watercooled heads but they didn't say if they are for type I's or type IV's. I'd love to have the heads on my car watercooled.
I've got an extra 911 2.0 head sitting on my workbench, time to play around.....
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Mike Mueller
Antioch, CA
1970 1.8 http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/mmueller/personal.html


[This message has been edited by mike mueller (edited 06-16-2000).]

[randoid]

What am I missing? How can a head, that's designed for a six cyl motor fit on a four cyl engine?

--
Randy

[mike mueller]

Randy, you are thinking too hard.....
the heads for the 911's are seperate for each cylinder, the cam towers are one piece which sit on all three heads on one side.
So for a type IV, you'd need 4 911 cylinder heads and two cam tower assemblies. The cam towers would need to be modified and shortened, as would the cams, in fact, it might be easier to just have new cams made from blanks.

------------------
Mike Mueller
Antioch, CA
1970 1.8
http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/mmueller/personal.html

[Jeff Nelson]

This is an interesting thread. I would love to see what some folks have done in the way of modified or retrofitted heads for the type IV. The head has got to be the weakest part of the design. The 911 heads are sure interesting but what a lot of work to make them fit. Water cooled heads would really be the ticket. I'll bet that a type IV head could be adapted to water cooling or maybe oil cooling. Has anyone done any work along these lines or given it serious thoughts? By the way, would a 914 engine with Subaru heads still be a Porsche engine as far as the PCA is concerned?

[mike mueller]

Concerning the Subaru heads on a Type IV being considered a Porsche engine is interesting, since for the 911 engine you can buy aftermarket heads (CMW ??) which are billet aluminum verses cast aluminum and supposedly very trick. So I guess the question is at what point is the Porsche engine no longer a Porsche engine if the major components have been replaced by aftermarket parts. The 911 heads might be easier since the spacing from bore to bore can be more easily taken care of since the heads themselves are seperate. Using a one piece head like the Sub. you have to make sure that the distance between the chambers and pistons are the same or pretty damn close.If the spacing is off too much you could always cut the head in half and add or remove the correct amount and have them MIG welded back together. It might just be easier and cheaper to design some type IV heads from scratch,
have water cooling passages cast in or have some made from solid billet and have them milled out on a 5-axis mill. But for any of this to happen, someone is going to have to have some money to burn or have too much time on thier hands and have the resources to do it.

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Mike Mueller
Antioch, CA
1970 1.8
http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/mmueller/personal.html

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Hmmm... I can't help but think that there might not be enough room in the engine bay for the 911 heads on the Type IV motor. As is, the heads come pretty close to the suspension pickup points and bodywork. The 911 heads may be shorter than the 914 ones, but then there are the cam towers...

Someone would have to do some measurement on that kind of setup.

--DD

[rich]

The later VW tranporter is a wasser boxer. Type IV with water jacketed heads. The 911 head idea is really cool. Is there any real HP gain for all the custom machine work?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Well, the 911s run compression ratios up to 11.3:1 -- and on street gas! Those heads, some piston squirters, and a knock sensor to retard the timing... Yeah, you might get a little tiny bit of power out of that... ;^)

Another option is to do what some of the "Outlaw 356" guys have done. They have taken a 911 motor, and cut the middle 1/3 out of it. A four-cylinder dry-sumped 911 motor. Supposedly they really put out the power.

--DD