Non-Porsche engine options

[farleyd]

Hi to all, it was (is) planned that i rebuild my 2,0L engine. Cost was supposed to be around 1400-1600US$ for a good rebuild from cam up.

Now that i am short of a valuable mechanic - sigh - the one that i had isnt returning my calls (and he still has my 2.0L heads, blocks, etc)... ... i am considering a valuable engine replacement.

I am sick and tired of having Honda Civics and the likes trying me at stoplights, and being unable to put them on untill the next curve...

I know of V-6/8 conversion. Is there any other option?
Using the stock 911 tranny?

Lets talk.

BTW : is anyone has a V6/8 conversion kit for sale?

[Jake Raby]

You can try a Subaru 2.2 or 2.5 engine...I have seen 2 of these in 914s, one with a turbo and 400 BHP on a chassis dyno...

The conversion is not cheap!! I have one of the 2.2 engines in my VW single cab truck, it has electromotive ignition and injection, it is really sweet, Turbo comes next year..

You can always have us prepare a 2270 for the beast, no more civics will eat you then..
3

[jabb]

911 Flat 6....

Beware All conversion a quite costly...

------------------

• Joe A.
• 84 911 Targa
• 75 914/6 3.0

[Rouser]

I thought you were on this serious shoe-string budget? Suddenly, you're considering a 6/8 conversion?

Best suggestion: get your engine back, toss your 914 back together, follow jabb's advice about "conversions", sell the car, and buy a Camaro or Mustang.

If you're gonna sweat the riceburners verses proud ownership of a 914 "in pure form", than you don't know what 914's are all about.

I'm not "knocking" (pun intended) the water 6/8's if your wallet (and mechanics) are deep enough. But personally, I'd be calling Jake Raby and going his 2.27L route, if only "for purist's sake".

[Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn]

I recently bought a 914 with v6 engine and yes the performance is superior but is not a Porsche.
In my personal opinion:
The coversion kits are not cheap
You can find at very good price 2.7 911 engine in good condition.
Go for it !
Soon, I will go for 911 engines in my 914, maybe a 3.6 rebuild ( I hope ).

[farleyd]

In response to Rouser, i like 914s. In no way ill have a Camaro or Mustang. I like the 914 for what it is. A superb design, a unique car that has a personality.

But then, it misses something, HP! I planned on rebuilding my 2.0L, as i said, using stock parts + Euro Mahle 8.0.1 P/Cs. And i also contacted Jake to star a discussion. My main reasons were that in my area, not many mechanics want to touch the 914. And i thought that a V6/8 conversion was cheaper that a Porsche 6.

Ill keep you post on my decision. If only i can get a hand on my 2.0L and my mechanic...

[jabb]

The cost of V8 power is cheap but the conversion parts are expensive. Also
you need to run radiators which require
cutting and lots of modifications.

Get you engine back and rebulid it yourself
If you have access to a garage and tools it
is not that complicated a motor.

Just pickup a couple of books... and people on this board can get you through the rebuild.



------------------

• Joe A.
• 84 911 Targa
• 75 914/6 3.0

[farleyd]

Hi, i started the topic. If i were to go to a Porsche 6, what engine would i need if i want to stay injection?

My budget is on the low side - with three kids under 5, youll understand why, so please lets stay way from 3.0L. I was more into 2.2, 2.4 or 2.7. What would be best?

Thanks.

[mike mueller]

Sabin,

So far I've spent the following on my V8 conversion (US dollars):
Radiator:200
Dual Electric Fans:200
radiator hoses (still not finished buying them all): 150
machine work for SBC:350
new parts for rebuild (new cam w/lifters, all new bearings [could have been cheaper but bought better grade parts than factory for most of the items]):450
used adaptor plate and flywheel:300
new pressure plate:250

The following items I still need to purcahse:
offset water pump:~300
front motor mount:~100
heavier rear duty springs:~80
carb rebuild kit:~45
new belts and pulleys and new special harmonic balancer:175
exhaust:~150 (if I use cheap Summit racing turbo mufflers I can cut that price in half)

Had I kept the Buick V6 I had I'm sure the cost would have been much cheaper unless I needed to rebuild the V6 and the cost would have been equal but not as rewarding.

(I was lucky and recieved my 350 for free and it included a performance manifold and carb with it.)



[This message has been edited by mike mueller (edited 03-26-2001).]

[Jake Raby]

I think I will stick with type 4 power....

[SteveStromberg]

I have been looking at my 90 Miata thinking that it might be a good swap for the flat four, 1.8 Miata motor sell here for $650.00 Changing the waterpump Would be a pull the motor job but they last 75,000 miles. Steve

[Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn]

2.2, 2.4 and 2.7 engines are old, then probably need a rebuild.
Rebuilded motors are not cheap ( motormeister.com) but is the best way to go.
I saw a lot of post of people that want sell his engines because updated to newer or larger displacements then sell his engines at good price.
Example 2.7 engine complete only without carbs ,rebuilded at 1500.
I´m probably stay away from the injection, I like the webers.
The conversion parts are expensive also in the chevrolet engine.
But if you go for the V8 you will need a 915 trans because the 901 is weak. ( I hear a lot of people that blow the trans ).
2.5 type 4 are expensive but if you already have one convert to a stroker, headers and webers, you will note a lot of difference.

[rich]

You could always have a Porsche V8......
http://www.d.umn.edu/~jrichar4/alien.htm

[Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn]

Rich:

Where are you ?, I ask a lot of time about this conversion because a friend have a 928 info and I have 914 v6 already do it.
Once, I saw your web page but I believe that the alien is another body modification and I don´t saw.
I will send you and e-mail

Eduardo.

[Jim Osborn]

I am considering the 1.8T out of the new VW's for a conversion. They are easy to mod and I would be able to use the transverse layout which means that I could use the O2J Tranny from the same layout. Advantages: Cable shifted, stronger, quieter.....the list goes on.

------------------
2000 Jetta GLS 1.8T 5speed Silver/ Black chip(AMS), exhaust (TT/Borla), abt filter
1973 Porsche 914 HO2.0L Black/Black
"Some people have shrinks, some have garages"

[Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn]

Jim: Is a good idea,Once I considered this modification but with 2.0 8 v crossflow with weber and turbo, because I already have the adpter for the vw trans, then easily installed in a 914.
The engine is easily tuneable, some friends have this mod in his golf and is difficult to me stay with them in 150 to 190 K/h acceleration.
I believe that the 20 V audi head is better for turbo aplication but the fuel management is expensive, (maybe a haltec).
But is the same, is not a Porsche !
You can see in my page a VW bettle with 2.0 gti (F3)engine.
Eduardo

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Sabin, how much work do you want to do?

If you're interested in moderate amounts of power without a lot of work, then a souped up Type IV is the only way to go. You can put together a 2.2 liter 8.5:1 motor with a mild "performance" cam, headers, and 2.0 D-jet FI that will just bolt right in with zero problems. You will need to tweak the FI to make it work correctly, possibly to the extent of upgrading to the higher-flowing MBz injectors. But apart from that, everything will be "plug and play". You can even have someone weld up some heater boxes for your headers if you need a bit of heat!

The Six upgrade is not cheap, as has been mentioned many places. It can be done for a less-than-absurd amount of money (just ask Brad on the 914 Rennlist), but that is definitely the exception rather than the rule.

911 engines were available with MFI (mechanical fuel injection) from 69-73 on the 911E and 911S models. (From 2.0 through 2.4 liters.) The 911T had MFI from 72-73. (2.4 only.) MFI is a purely-mechanical system which is capable of making lots of power and gives terrific throttle response. However, it tends to be fairly finicky and not that easy to work on.

CIS (which is sometimes referred to as "mechanical" fuel injection, but is more properly "hydraulic" in nature) was first used on the 73.5 911T (half-year only, 2.4 liters). CIS (Continuous Injection System) is also known as Bosch K-Jetronic FI. It continued through all of the 2.7 motors (74-77), and through the 3.0 liter 911SC (78-83). The 911 Turbos up through the 3.3 (I think) also used CIS.

The 3.2 Carreras (83-88 or 89) used a true electronic engine management system that is derived from the 1.8 liter 914's L-jet FI. Later 911s used further-refined versions of this DME system.

If you want a halfway modern FI, then the 73.5 911T motor or any of the 2.7 motors are your only choice in the range you are talking about. The CIS is a good system, but it has its own quirks and it can be a bit tough to find someone who has experience with it. A good 911 mechanic, or a good watercooled VW mechanic, should have experience with this system.

Frankly, for the money I would take the 2.2 liter motor. It would probably be the least expensive choice over all, even if you include adding the heat exchanger bits onto the headers. If you really dislike carbs, I'd consider scraping up the money for an aftermarket EFI so you can really tune the fuel system for the motor. Just ask Jake hos much power he can get out of a 2.2 Type IV--you'll be leaving everything but Integra Type Rs (real ones, not the "sticker engineered" ones) in the dust in a hurry.

--DD

[farleyd]

Reply to Dave, thanks for the rpecise answer.

My concern were that i REALLY believe that my mechanic ran away with my engine. No joke, he hasnt returned a single call in two weeks till today, coincidence. Thats is why i was planning on a six. I have two friends around - Marc-André Morin, Ursula 914/6 on Rennlist who did it and Michel Richard who will. So i could have help. Money IS a factor, believe me.

Id like to stay FI. How can you get a 8:5:1 2.2? Would you list the items needed? How many HP?
Here is what i have:
stock 2.0L with clean, no cracked heads
SS heat exchangers (should i get headers?)
Stock FI
Euro Mahle Pistons/Cyl. on the way

Maybe that would be more realistic to rebuilt that engine properly, run a summer or two, sell the car, buy a used - wrecked 914/6 and start again, what dya think?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The 2258 motor is 78 stroke by 96 bore. To get to 8.5:1, you'd have to measure all of the pertinent stuff on the motor and calculate how much (if any) to have the heads flycut. Check in "Tech Specs" on this website for an Excel spreadsheet that will calculate the compression ratio for you.

Since the crank, rods, pistons and cylinders would all get replaced, you could start with any Type IV case pretty much. (At least, any with the dipstick and oil filler in the right place.) The SSIs could be used, but headers would give you more power. The FI could be used, but carbs and a lumpy cam will give you more power.

I don't really know what kind of power you'd get out of the setup. I'd be surprised if it were much under 130, and I wouldn't be surprised if it got over 150. But the exact power output depends on so many different factors that it is very difficult to say.

As to costs, Jake can give you a better idea than I can.

--DD

[farleyd]

I am still juggling. At least i took the V6/8 option out.

Now i could have access to a 1974 2.4 with MFI. I plan on putting the MFI out and go the carbs way.

Any thoughts?