oil cooler leak?

[914Hugh]

I have an oil leak somewhere above the oil filter.

A little background- This is a freshly rebuilt 76 2.0. The leak is rather substantial leaving 1foot diameter puddle of oil with the car only running for a minute.

At first, I assume it was the oil cooler. I had used a bit of rtv on the oil cooler seals and assumed I did a shody job. So last night, I replaced the seals in similar fashion to the oil cooler tech article. To my dismay, I turned the car over after the work was done only to find the same leaky problem

So, finally, to the questions:
1.Could the oil temp sender leak a good amount of oil? (I am assuming that there arent any other leaks that I should check out that would leave oil on the cooler seals and the oil filter.

2.What is the fit like for the oil cooler seals? (Mine arent very compressed, but at (I believe) 60 inch/pounds and I recall having some thick washers between the cooler and the case, I didnt expect them to be squished supertight.)Could I have used the wrong washers?

3.How do you tell if there is actually a leak in the oil cooler itself? (I assumed this is likely to be ok since I didnt have any leaks before I pulled the engine). Anything else I should check in regard to the oil cooler?

Any thoughts, questions, recommendations?

Thanks- hugh

[ovilla]

Go to your nearest FLAPS and get some "Simple Green" spray or any other degreaser or brake cleaner. Simple Green is not strong and you'll be able to start cleaning up right away. Also, replace the oil pressure switch since these things always seem to leak. I've even had a brand new one start leaking on me. I would also replace the valve cover gaskets as these can shrink with time and also leak (even upwards, not just downwards). Get a new oil filter too and make sure you wipe down the mating surface of the filter before you put it on. Finally, when all is clean, put the rear of the car up on ramps, chock the front wheels and have someone turn it on for just a minute or two and then turn it off. Since you started with a really clean engine you should now be able to feel the oil with your fingertips (or a clean rag should be able to find traces of oil).
Finally, if you still can't figure out what's going on try this. Go to your local hardware store and buy a "black light" bulb. Then call around to your FLAPS and tell them that you want some oil dye to find an oil leak. This stuff works great. Clean your engine again and then put some of this dye in your engine. Then have someone start the engine and you hold up your black light against the bottom of the engine. The oil dye will make your oil leaks look like thick runs of white toothpaste running down the engine block. To see it better, close your garage door and dim your garage lights really low. Good luck.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

I don't remember any washers between the cooler and the case. That may be your problem.

Other possibilities include the oil pressure sender (as previously noted), or the O-ring around the part of the distributor body that pokes into the case. Possibly oil spilled while filling the engine up. (Don't laugh--one time I scared myself pretty good by doing just that!!)

--DD

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Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling

[Jake Raby]

A big mistake is to use any sealant on oil cooler seals, it helps them to slide out of place, as it lubes the surface..

Check the sender, and dist like Dave said..

We have an improvised oil cooler flushing device that incorporates a leak down test unit, the only way to see if the cooler leaks..

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Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

[3D914]

Hugh,

I hate to disagree as I'm no expert, but when putting on my oil cooler the thick washers were required on the studs, inside between the cooler and the block. Without them the cooler would not sit square to the block at all three studs.

In fact, my lower seal kept leaking (I prefilled the cooler specifically to see any leaks after assy), and with a flashlight I could see light passing between the wide portion of the seal and the case. I measured all the accumulated heights for both seals and found that the dimensions for the lower cooler hole were 0.03 off (larger) compared to the upper one - resulting in a gap.
So I located a washer that was 0.03 thinner.

Now I'm willing to consider that just because these washers were on when I took the cooler off, doesn't make them valid, but as I said my cooler didn't appear to sit squarely without them, and the seals would have to be quite "squashed" without them.

Any insights would be helpful. Don't want to have to pull this bugger off after its back in the car.

Regards,



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Gerard
74-914 2.0L
3D914
rodrigos6@juno.com

[tracer]

I just replaced my seals and just had block+seals+cooler+washers+nuts in that order.


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Thanks,

Brian
'74 1.8L in resto

[Jake Raby]

We never use any washers under the cooler, it requires a "crush factor" to seal, period!!

EVERY engine I have seen with washers between the cooler, and case, had a leak at the cooler, some worse than others..

I will be waiting for someone to bring out a book, to attempt to prove this post wrong, I have pulled too many fan housings to be convinced otherwised, what a joy..

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Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

[This message has been edited by Jake Raby (edited 08-11-2001).]

[914Hugh]

Thanks for the input guys. I am in the process of changing out the oil pressure sending unit and the valve cover gasket, although the problem is probably that lack of 'crush factor'.

If the latter, I'll drop the engine today and post some pics of how te oil cooler fits with and w/out those washers (I feel so silly about having to pull the engine for a few washers, but I'll be happy to do it if it solves the problem.) Thanks-Hugh

[3D914]

Well I'd better pull mine as well and try again without the spacers between the cooler and case. Perhaps its more than coincidence that in a recent order I mistakenly ordered "oil coller seals" instead of the "oil filler seal ring".

Fortunately my engine is still out on the stand. Let you all know the results.



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Gerard
74-914 2.0L
3D914
rodrigos6@juno.com

[3D914]

Well that was easy - praise the Lord! Not so for Hugh I imagine. I'm not sure what I missed last time, but the cooler went on fine without the spacers. I can see that the large dia of the seal is well compressed (more than before I might add) with only the 60 in-lbs torque.

Upon reflection I was afraid to compress the seals too much as I suspected they could collapse and block the passage of oil, but if this has not been the experience of others - great by me.

Hope all works out for you as well - Hugh.

Regards,



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Gerard
74-914 2.0L
3D914
rodrigos6@juno.com

[guards73/2.0]

I just did my seals while the engine was on a stand a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure it wasn't off before, and I doubt it ever leaked, but I also found NO WASHERS BETWEEN
COOLER AND BLOCK, and that's how I reassembled it-no leaks! I did however use just a thin film of blue permatex to hold the seals in place in those recesses while I tightened the 3 nuts down (again, with washers on the OUTSIDE. Hopefully, that small amount of sealant won't come back to haunt me!

[914Hugh]

Thanks again for your input. I am happy to hear that someone learned from my troubles (I myself have avoided a lot of issues being a first time rebuilder and reading these posts).

The engine came out this past weekend and went back in yesterday, and the oil leak is now gone. That was painful to remove 3 washers, but I was happy to at least be addressing the problem rather than looking for it.

I stated in my last reply that I was going to take a few pictures with the different placements of the washers. This didnt happen bc my engine was sitting on a furniture cart. The difference though was the seals being slightly compressed with the washers on the inside compared to now not even being able to see the seals with the washers in the correct position. Nevertheless, here is a pic of those washers if you havent had your engine apart lately.(The second object is a quarter. Whats the purpose of such thick washers though?)



Regarding the issues brought up in this post:

-I dont think you need washers to level out the oil cooler against the engine. the seals themselves should give as needed to get the seal between both surfaces.

-You pretty much have to use rtv to keep the oil cooler seals in place without dropping the engine. I agree with Jake though in that it seems best that these seals be able to move around so they can be pushed into the optimal position.

Finally, last question (just curious if anyone knows). What is the purpose of having to washers on one side?

Take care- Hugh

[This message has been edited by 914Hugh (edited 08-16-2001).]

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Grease also works, and will not clog up oil passages if it winds up on the inside of the motor. RTV can.

The washers are probably for the same purposes washers always are--to distribute the load of the nut, and to help the nut turn to its final tightening torque smoothly.

--DD

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Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling

[Jake Raby]

Simply:

Install Elring seals, dry, and very carefully,install NO washers under the cooler, and torque it up....No leaks will be present....I do it everyday.

[roadtrp204]

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/parts/engine/oil_circulation_system_large.htm

seals <- cooler <- aluminum washer <- spring washer <- nut

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Chris
75 914 2.0L



[This message has been edited by roadtrp204 (edited 08-16-2001).]