A little project I'm working on

[993inNC]

This is "Summer". She came into my possession last September and is currently undergoing a little.............."surgery". Enjoy

[Jagshund]

Fun! I'm right there with you, except I decided not to do full pans but rather replace just the rear sections. I'm hoping to be on the road this summer- you?

[993inNC]

I may have been able to get away with rears, and bought full pans just in case. My media blast guy convinced me to do the entire pan.....its the right thing to do. I do want a clean car with no future issues, so i went for it. Once the drill started drilling, I couldn't stop! And now I get the longs completely clean and can say I've seen the entire structure and it'll be clean and rust free.

I have no real time frame for the completion, just know I'd rather it not be a multi year thing!
Thinking of going with an Alcantara/Swede dash top with leather seats, console and lower dash, and doing it in something other than just black.....we'll see. Plan on going no sail panel vinyl (weld the holes up and satin black the trim pieces). You?

[Griffinroydonal]

Please post all updates you can as I am also replacing the rear pans and can use your progress as reference. My front pans were great but the passengers rear had a split on the side. I decided to go a little past what was needed to make sure I never had to go back and rework the pans. I am interested in finding a seam filler that looks factory so you will never know I cut the car into pieces.

[993inNC]

That's what I had intended on doing, since I am soda blasting the car to bare metal, figured I'd be fine. The blast guy said it would be structurally more sound and of course a complete job. Since I already had the full replacement pans, figured "why not".
I'm guessing the car will get blasted sometime this week. I'll be at Road Atlanta next w/e so nothing else will get done for a while (other than the blasting).

[Matt Monson]

I've got to do this soon on my '73. I can't contemplate doing just a front or rear pan because it's the whole passenger side. So it's the whole thing for me too. I'm planning on seam welding it and putting in a half cage at the same time.

[993inNC]

There's a recent post on 914world about seam welding. I don't recall what thread it was in, but it was frowned upon, something about how it transfers load to other parts of the chassis prematurely. As well crash characteristics get violent when the body is so rigid it can't crumple.

[J P Stein]

Originally Posted by 993inNC

There's a recent post on 914world about seam welding. I don't recall what thread it was in, but it was frowned upon, something about how it transfers load to other parts of the chassis prematurely. As well crash characteristics get violent when the body is so rigid it can't crumple.

That sounds like an "exspurt's" Internet opinion with the usual amount of supporting physics or empirical data.

That said, it's a PITA to do the welding (BTDT). If you're building a race or high performance car, it's well worth doing...IMO.

[993inNC]

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, but it is worth looking into. I mean what other car gets welded like that? You don't weld a Miata up solid for example, right....? It would seem reasonable to assume the cage is the safety devise and car should crumble around it. And considering the 914's are an already fully welded car (as apposed to bolt on panels etc...) I would think a car in structurally good shape should be plenty strong without welding solid and creating a brick.

My thoughts (disclaimer, I am no expert, just my opinions )

[J P Stein]

Originally Posted by 993inNC

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, but it is worth looking into. I mean what other car gets welded like that? You don't weld a Miata up solid for example, right....? It would seem reasonable to assume the cage is the safety devise and car should crumble around it. And considering the 914's are an already fully welded car (as apposed to bolt on panels etc...) I would think a car in structurally good shape should be plenty strong without welding solid and creating a brick.

My thoughts (disclaimer, I am no expert, just my opinions )

I see you have a 993. I would guess that my old 914 chassis is now about half as stout as your 993 chassis. .....see pic attached.

You now have two opposing positions on the need for chassis stiffening from two different 914 internet exspurts. Someone is wrong. There are a bunch of band aids that folks will sell you to "improve" the 914 chassis. I didn't buy any of them, but I did seam weld (amongst other things). I would respectfully suggest that you do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions....that's how I did it.
The internet is a useful tool....if you can seperate the wheat from the chaff.

BTW, the 914 is no Miata. Chassis technology came a long way in 20 years.....still, racers seam weld them.

[993inNC]

Well again I am no expert on the subject, I just offered the suggestion that Matt do his homework before proceeding.

BTW, we are getting off the subject (Summer)

The blaster is coming to get the car tomorrow, so I should know its true condition shortly. Can't wait to see what it is I really bought.

[993inNC]

few more for your enjoyment. Started soda blasting yesterday, sand blasting the rust spots when done (I'm having it done, that's not me.
We are finding what he tells me is factory brass and lead filler as well as factory sanding marks (covered over by a metal conditioner)

Other than minor surface rust, the window channel is in great shape

He got quite a bit done in about an hour.

Some idiot "body man" decided filling the entire rear quater was the way to fix minor dents along the rear. Took forever for that crap to blast off, was like concrete!

[Jagshund]

Originally Posted by 993inNC

My media blast guy convinced me to do the entire pan.....its the right thing to do. I do want a clean car with no future issues, so i went for it. Once the drill started drilling, I couldn't stop! And now I get the longs completely clean and can say I've seen the entire structure and it'll be clean and rust free.

Thinking of going with an Alcantara/Swede dash top with leather seats, console and lower dash, and doing it in something other than just black.....we'll see. Plan on going no sail panel vinyl (weld the holes up and satin black the trim pieces). You?

I agree. Replacing it all is the correct thing to do if there's a lot of pitting, but in my case there was no rust in the front pans. The 911 I'm working on required replacing the full pans plus every piece of metal supporting them, so I wasn't looking forward to doing that again so soon.

My wife's decided on Irish Green with the black vinyl sails, but until I deem shakedown complete (installing a 2.2l subie turbo) it's going to be driven in primer- and I'm considering leaving the heavy coat of "protective rust" on the doors as accents.

[SirAndy]

You really should have added some door/targa-bar bracing before you threw her on the rotisserie.

It looks like the chassis is flexing in the center section ...
Andy

[993inNC]

The guy doing the work said the chassis is more than solid enough to carry itself. I asked him numerous times if I should do a bar across, and over and over he said the only reason to need doing bars is if the longs were rotten. He actually can't believe how nice the car is for the age.
At worst, he also has a frame machine and dimensional drawings for the car (so he tells me).

Makes sense if you think about it, if it can't hold its own weight, what's that saying for when the suspension holds the car up? Doors don't do anything for rigidity. If it tweaks, we'll fix it.

And do be honest, we'll know pretty quick if its tweaked, and deal with it before the real money gets spent on it (paint, final assembly etc...) I'm not to worried about it.

[SirAndy]

Originally Posted by 993inNC

Makes sense if you think about it, if it can't hold its own weight, what's that saying for when the suspension holds the car up? Doors don't do anything for rigidity.

That would be true if you used the suspension points to attach your rotisserie. With your current setup, you're putting stress into the frame where it was never designed to deal with it.

I've seen my fair share of bend tubs and that center section is the weakest point in the frame. You'd be surprised how much it flexes, even with good longs.

But hey, it's your car ...
Andy

PS: I bet if you try to mount your doors right now, you'll have a hard time closing them ...

[993inNC]

I appreciate the heads up, don't get me wrong. I'll report back what we find. Hey when I flip it over to replace the pans, I'll leave it that way for as long as its been right side up.....ya know counter any flex with opposite flex

[Jagshund]

Originally Posted by SirAndy

You really should have added some door/targa-bar bracing before you threw her on the rotisserie.

It looks like the chassis is flexing in the center section ...
Andy

Holy . . . #$(*%! Good call! with my eyes glued on the rotisserie, I didn't even notice the rubber car. Hmmm . . . if it turns out bent, SirAndy can always use it to make the limo a bit longer . . .

[993inNC]

I believe what you guys are seeing is the fact that the rotiss bolts are sloppy and the play in them is allowing for the arms to point slightly down on the frame making the car look like its bending. He assures me the car is fine. Guess we'll find out soon.

[Jagshund]

Eh, it's bent. Just go ahead and prime it and send it over my way. I'll even pay for shipping.