911 brakes for my 914/6

[spd1_20]

does anyone have or know where i can get a complete parts list for converting
my brakes over to 911.. calipers discs and all!! i want any info that you may have..
thanks
seth
75 2.0 914

[Joe Bob]

How much brake do you want? Typical upgrades run from the realtively simple addition of the BMW 320i front calipers, to a 911 SC front end swap for the street. Most leave the rear brakes alone, due to MOST upgrades requiring the loss of the emergency brake.

If this is a track car, the sky is the limit.

When using an SC front end, you need to convert the rear to five lug and change all the wheels.

Give us a little more information on your end result.....

[Joe Ricard]

Dude he said he had a 914-6. Already got the 5 lug!!! But I just got a reply back from a guy who is making an adapter to fit Boxster brakes all around. I will try and get his link and figure out how to fwd it to Ya'll.

[echocanyons]

Quote:
"Dude he said he had a 914-6. Already got the 5 lug!!! But I just got a reply back from a guy who is making an adapter to fit Boxster brakes all around. I will try and get his link and figure out how to fwd it to Ya'll. "


He also says that he has a 75 2.0
I think you need to clarify whether you already have the existing 5 lug brakes or are planning ot convert to 5 lug.
There is more than one route to go making the rears 5 lug all of which that I know of except drilling of the hubs leaves you with no hand brake(or atleast self fabrication of a handbrake). As far as the fronts if you are looking to upgrade to five lug the simplest and best(IMHO) is the 911(through84) switch.

I am excited to see this 914 with boxster brakes, Please post the link when you get it.

regards,

Kelly

[David McLaughlin]

I'll second the request for the Boxster brake link. After just a few driving days this summer I know I want REALLY good brakes.

On a factory 914/6 front end, what exactly needs to be changed to do a SC brake kit?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The struts and calipers.

Early SCs (some or all 78-79) had "S" calipers, later ones had "A" calipers. Both types use the 3.5" bolt spacing and the same rotor. The 914-6 used the "M" calipers with a 3" bolt spacing. The rotor is the same as used by the "S" and "A" calipers (through 83), though.

I am not certain, but I think that the front hubs are the same from the 914-6 to the SC.

--DD

[spd1_20]

ok sorry my fault.. i dont have a 914/6 yet.. but i plan to bolt a 6 into my
existing 75 2.0.. but i am going to need some bigger brakes if im gonna wanna
stop this thing..
im not sure as to how far i want to go with brakes.. the boxster brakes sound
pretty spendy for me right now.. but i would love to see how to do it..
ive decided that i want the 5 lug on my car so ive ruled out the bmw calipers.
so.. what all do i need to be able to change my lugs over to 5 bolt.. what year
car do i pull the parts from? after i get the 5lug do the calipers just bolt on?
ive heard about drilling to match the 5lug.. i dont want to do that..
i will autocross this car.. but i will also be driving it daily.. someday i hope to have
if strickly a track car..
thanks.. i hope ive cleared up some misunderstandings from my first post..
thanks
seth
75 2.0

[echocanyons]

I have not used these folks for parts, but it sounds like a reasonable(maybe a bit steep) price and exactly what you are looking for.
If not these folks you could probably call the POrsche salvage yards and find a complete 911 front suspension.

heres the link:

http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/914_carrera_brake_suspension_for.html

I would be interested in any feedback on this company, they seem to have many good products(esp. the 916 bolt on trans )

Regards,

Kelly

[echocanyons]

you can also try Chris Carroll at www.powerhaus.com

He did a complete 914 big brake pkg in the Nov 96 European car
magazine.

I think this pkg. with 23mm master cyl was around $2000 a year or so ago using early turbo four piston calipers all the way around.

I believe you have to use at least 7" wheels with this pkg.

I cannot recall if the rear hubs were fabricated or drilled

Kelly

___________________I just remembered that this pkg is for exixsting 5 lug cars and 911 front susp.______________


SORRY

[campbellcj]

The 5-lug conversion doesn't rule out the 320i conversion. It depends which 911 struts you use.

If you go ahead and do the 911 struts, you may as well get ones with 3.5" caliper bolt spacing. That opens up lots of possibilities, from "basic" M or S 911 factory calipers, on up to 951/928/930/993/etc with the right adapters, wheels and possibly spacers. One nice setup I've seen used 993 rotors and calipers under early Boxster 16x7" wheels. Plenty of brakes for most of us. Made to stop cars weighing >600 lbs more.

The real question is - what brakes do you *need*? What /6 are you putting in the car, and what will you use it for? If it's a track car, then obviously cooling, fade-resistance and performance are more crucial that for a casual weekend boulevard cruiser.

Cheers,

[Joe Bob]

On the subject of Patrick Motorsports, not the friendliest bunch of people on the phone. When shopping for parts for my 914/6 conversion they were very rude and I decided to take my bucks elsewhere.

AS to brakes, the SC suspension up front was more than adequate to stop my 3.0 powered 914/6 track/street car. The rears were 320i BMWs on converted five lug rear hubs. I did have to lose the emergency brake, but there are kits available to add a "spot" caliper. Willwood has a model.

On CVs, I stayed with stock 914s ones. I did blow one up on a nasty hard down shift, but it was an old one that was probably 30 years old. A newly repacked one was installed and lasted two race seasons without complaint.

I was using a stock trans with an added LSD and did a LOT of burnouts....

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

What you want to do is look at Pelican's five-lug conversion guide. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_five_lug_conversion/914_five_lug_conversion.htm

69+ 911s (and original 914-6es) used "M" calipers, while somewhere in the late 60s or early 70s the 911-S went to "S" calipers. I believe that all 911s went to "S" calipers in about 75 or 76. In about 80, they all transitioned to "A" calipers and stayed with them until the end of the torsion-bar suspension in ~90.

"S" calipers are aluminum--a magnet won't stick. "M" and "A" calipers are steel--a magnet will stick. "M" calipers have 3" bolt spacing, while "S" and "A" calipers have 3.5" bolt spacing.

Any 911 brakes will be sufficient for a street-driven 914-6, unless you are going really wild.

--DD

[David McLaughlin]

Sufficient... adequate ...

Those are not words I care for. I want WOW. I want the car to stand on it's nose. Ok, maybe that's a bit over stated, but you get my point.

Do I understand correctly that I just need to replace my struts to fit the larger system in the 914? Does that mean I coult potentially run Big Reds? What about the rear??

[echocanyons]

I agree 100% with you David.

Yes you can use big reds all the way around.

I believe www. powerhaus.com has a adapter kit to run big reds on the rears, but you do lose the handbrake.

Bigger wheels are a must

Kelly

[David McLaughlin]

Ooo, I forgot about wheel clearance. I really like my Fuchs. Would 16" fit over big reds?

[campbellcj]

Originally posted by David McLaughlin
Ooo, I forgot about wheel clearance. I really like my Fuchs. Would 16" fit over big reds?

Nope, IIRC, you have to run at least 17's to fit big reds or similar calipers. The rotor's you'd use would be pretty huge too.

Of course, if you remember the recent thread on this, you can get custom-built 17's with Fuchs centers. They are probably $400+ per corner though.

I think that the Boxster (non-S), 951, 930 and 928S4 brakes will all fit under 16" wheels. The early 930 brakes will also fit under 15's I believe. They are still fantastic brakes.

Cheers,
Chris C.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

If you want the car to stand on its nose, you'll need more tire. And some new weight distribution. And so on and so on.

If you're really inclined, you can put 24" rotors on the car, have brake pads the size of your hand, and calipers with six 3" pistons. (You can do anything with a welder...) All that does is add a ton and a half of unsprung weight, some of it rotating.

Why did you want this again? If it's to be able to brag that you've got Big Reds on your car, go for it. If you're actually trying to get better performance from the car, the huge brakes won't help. They'll hurt acceleration, they'll hurt handling, and yes--they'll hurt your braking performance. Big Reds might not be so large that the braking performance suffers--but handling and acceleration will. And it is possible to make the rotating mass heavy enough that braking performance suffers.

Unless you're going to the track, any of the "M", "S", or "A" calipers will provide more than enough braking for anything but a really wild 914. If you've got huge fenders with 270-width tires, a 930 motor, a full roll cage, and so on--then you really need the Big Reds or equivalent. If you're going to the track where you're going to be putting tons of heat into the brakes, and you have more than a "mild" 914-6, you may need something bigger/better than the "A" brakes.

Otherwise, it's just about bragging points. So, what is your aim here again??

--DD

[Jim Smolka]

I agree with Dave,

For most 914s, you will only need A calipers, and then just have then Duct as seen in the tech article.

On the track, this is what I use and I don't have a problem w/brake fade. And I do have the WOW effect when I step on then from 140 MPH to 30 MPH (at VIR)

If I went crazy and put in a super charged 3.6, flares, 265 slicks etc, then I would look for more brakes. For now, I will wait till the crazy bug hits me

[Joe Bob]

OK.....WOW.....use SC front brakes, slotted (not drilled) rotors and orange Pagid pads.....I use them on both my /6 and the 911.....only thing better would be an ability to retrofit ABS.....

Z

[David McLaughlin]

Ok, SC it is (and I get to keep my 15" Fuchs for the street and who knows what for the track.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...
Parts needed: SC struts, SC Calipers, SC sized discs and pads, and misc hardware. Is it better to buy a used left and right assembley then add the new replacement parts or to just buy new to start.


What about the rear; what parts are needed to bump those up a bit? I know I'll loose the E brake until Clay puts his kits together.

For the record, my plans are for a caged, flared, track car. I'll keep the stock 2.0L for now with plans to put in a warm 3.0 or stock(ish) 3.2L.

Mike, what motor was used in Vader, and what are the plans for Luke?