914 to 914-6 (conversion)

Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn · 01-07-2002, 07:06 PM

I want to install a 911 engine in my car.

Which are the best kits availbale that includes all the stuff necesary to adapt the engine and preferely one that includes the negine ( 2.7 ). ?

In this moment the best for me is the motormeister at $7,995.00 .

Please tell me your comments about this, and other options.

Thanks

jabb · 01-07-2002, 07:35 PM

Go to the 911 list and do a search on MotorMiester before you make a decision to go with a kit from them

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Motor Meister sells a kit, but it is expensive and usually missing parts according to some posters,,,,,anyone who stocks all the parts will charge a premium on the "service" of collecting for you....

MY recommendation is to call Pelican Parts, GPR (ask for Dave) and or Rich Johnson a914guy@aol.com

Have a list of all the parts you need and ask them what they can supply and at what price.

Rich does it part time, at least he did when I was doing my 914/6....and will probably ask for payment up front but he IS VERY trustworthy.

They can supply you with the mounts, oil tanks etc.....
Also brad@all914.com dabbles in parts for the conversion, it would not hurt to try him as well...

THEN, I would use Kennedy Engineering for the flywheel and clutch....depending on what engine you choose. http://www.kennedyeng.com/

Good Luck

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

BTW....you could have bought the complete car that I was selling not too long ago for the price THAT kit.....

Check it out....
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=726&query=retrieval

It's been sold....BUT,,,,it shows how overpriced the stuff can be.

Jim Smolka · 01-07-2002, 09:46 PM

When I did my conversion, Pelican was the best place to get the stuff I needed. Of course Pelican buys some of their stuff from other venders, but their prices are very good.

Also, if you need someone to convert your car to a 6, I would love to do the conversion

Another note, you might want to consider a 3.0 or 3.2 conversion. The additional cost for the motor and clutch assy is money well spent IMHO (Especially the 3.2)

Also, I have a spread sheet of the various aprox cost of a typical conversion.

Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn · 01-07-2002, 09:58 PM

jabb:
wow !, expensive the story of kurtstarnes, thanks.

mikez:
Thanks, I already send to them an email.
Maybe I can buy a car in USA for this price, but certainly not here.

Jimsmolka:
Please help me with your cost list.

Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn · 01-07-2002, 10:08 PM

Jim Smolka:
I almost forgot, please tell me more about the bigger engines.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

The smaller motors (up to 2.7) require an early (~1969) flywheel. The 3.0 - 3.6 motors require an adaptor flywheel, one that fits in the 901 transmission but has the flywheel bolt pattern used on the 3.0+ motors.

If you want to use the DME on your 3.2 or 3.6 motor, the flywheel has to have provisions in it for the crank position sensors. If you're sticking with carbs (or CIS), the "regular" adaptor flywheel will do.

The 3.2 and 3.6 can hurt a 901-based transmission. Particularly the torque from the 3.6. There was one member on the 914 Rennlist who had blown up two side-shifter 914 transmissions with his 3.6, and was going to convert to a 915 tranny because of that.

MikeZ roasted an old and tired 901 with his 3.0 motor, but the rebuilt one held up to a lot more abuse.

Sounds like the 3.2 may be where you have to start considering the 915 transmission swap. If you go with that, you can use the flywheel that originally came with your motor. But there are other costs...

--DD

Jim Smolka · 01-08-2002, 03:48 PM

Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn,

The 3.0 - 3.2 conversion is a great conversion.

Kennedy Engineering is the place to go to get the clutch/pressure plate/disk/flywheel that you will need. Figure about an extra $500 for the correct clutch setup as compared to a 2.0 - 2.7 conversion.

So far, my 901 gear box has held up to a 3.0 and a now a 3.2 However, I have toasted first gear with the 3.2 when I was autocrossing

(that's racin')

At the track, the 901 gear box is doing well.

I have considered going to a 3.6, but I think I will install a G50 tranny instead of the 915. The 915 has its own set of problems IMHO. I sure I will have to be creative

If you are going to conversion, I would enjoy doing those projects.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Don't bother with the G-50. From what I hear the hassles are simply unbelievable. The 915 is evidently a whole lot more straightforward. Even the 930 box is supposed to be easier than the G-50, and you have to machine the inside of the 930 box to flip the ring and pinion!!

--DD

campbellcj · 05:47 PM

What you are doing with the car (and how do it, i.e. how you drive) also is a big factor in the fate of the trans!

IMHO autocross is significantly harder on transmissions than road racing/time trials, because you have to repeated hard 1st gear launches out of the gates, and on many courses have to constantly downshift into 1st for super-tight turns. On road courses 1st gear pulls you out of the pits and that's usually it; in fact you might never see 2nd gear either on the big tracks.

In street driving with a high-torque engine, you can often just forget about 1st gear entirely, and start off in 2nd. Some of the V8 conversion guys even lock-out first so it is basically a 4-speed box.

There are apparently several mods that can be made on the 901, in terms of cooling and lubrication to help it hold up to more power and harder use. You can also install the billet-aluminum intermediate plate. (Some of the trans gurus like Otto and Paul Guard could help w/ the details.)

For purposes of my next car, I am 90% sure I will go with a fresh 901 modified as appropriate for race use, and keep the lightweight and better shifting (IMO) of the 901 box vs. the 915.

Jim Smolka · 01-08-2002, 06:55 PM

Dave,

My plan is to one day try to fit a G50 with a 3.6
To get the system to work, I will mount the tranny upside down and run pump system with a cooler. I not sure if it will work, but I like the mental excerise.

This project won't be easy, but I will probably built a tubed 914 and use it strickly as a track car. Now if I can just find that magic money tree.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Jim, you may run into problems with the G-50, even running it upside-down. Check for comments from Paul Guard, Guard Transmissions--he is the Porsche gearbox guru.

Go to: http://www.rennlist.com/digests and select "racing list digest". Then click "login", and select January 9 digest. Just scroll through and look for G50, G-50, and Paul Guard.

--DD

Jim Smolka · 01-10-2002, 04:06 AM

Dave,

Thanks for the tip. Seems that it is possible to run a G-50 upside down, but the CV angles might be a challenge. Hmmm...

Something for me to think on...

Arlen · 01-13-2002, 12:31 AM

Do 2.7 911 engines require the use of a 901 transmission, or can you use your stock transnission?

In the case of using a stock trans, could you just drop your 2.0, install the 6 motor mount, and then install engine? (strikes me as just too easy to work

)

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

A 914 uses a 901 transmission. Different gearing and runs the opposite dirrection of the 901 in a 911. You only have to use the correct flywheel and engine mount to pop a 6 in a 914.

Two types of mounts, the under body mount and the bulkhead mount....the bulkhead is far superior.

Kennedy Engineering makes the best flywheels and cheaper than early used 911 ones that work with the 901 trans....on a 3.0 and bigger, you need a "conversion" flywheel. KEP makes them too, along with custom clutch packages all for killer prices. They make most of the V8 conversion stuff for Renegade and Simpson AFIK....

Arlen · 01-13-2002, 02:43 PM

So if I wanted to drop a 6 in my 914, all I need is the complete engine, new flywheel and bulkhead mount?

I disconnect and drop the existing 2.0, then I.. would just install the new bulkhead mount (removing the old mount?), raise the 6 and hook everything back up, nothing needs to be changed, except the flywheel?

So, if a 6 costs, $2000, the bulkhead, is $500! And a new flywheel for $400, that's $3000+ YIKES!

Given that I've already thrown 3-4k into my restored 2.0, and not including the cost of new front suspension, brakes/calipers, and new wheels with new tires--how can it be that you just sold a 914/6 for such a cheap price Mikez?

Jim Smolka · 01-13-2002, 03:28 PM

A couple of other items are needed also. Like an oil tank with filler and lines. Oil cooling systems (2.7 and above IMHO) Cable linkage headers, muffler, fuel pump (if CIS or DME). Modification to the stock engine oil cooler for the 90 degree bend. Modification to the shifting linkage...

Not to mention brakes and suspension modifications.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Arlen, there's a lot more than that involved in the Six conversion.

How can converted cars sell for so much less? Because you always lose money, often buckets of it, converting a car and then selling it. (I actually know an exception to that rule, but it's not a feat that is likely to be repeated by you or me.) That's just the way it works--same for any of the engine swaps. You'll never get the money out of the car that you have into it. Ditto for race cars.

But selling the thing is not really the point, is it??

Oh, and Corollary #1 to the above, is a truism we've heard over and over: "It's always cheaper to buy someone else's dream."

--DD

Arlen · 01-13-2002, 06:58 PM

Yes, selling the car is not the point, I'm trying to figure out how I can make my dream as cheap as possible.

My 914 just got up here to WA, where I go to school--I'm afraid that I spent so much time and effort restoring this car, only to watch this rust free car, rust, before my very eyes!