Stupid electrical problems!

paulhagedorn · 01-12-2002, 04:17 PM

Well, something is amiss with my teener. It is quite strange, too.
When the lights are on, the car runs terribly, but with them off, it seems to run just fine, except it cuts out every so often for only a second.

The engine is a 2.0 with fuel injection.
I have checked the dwell and it is around 45 degrees. I replaced the spark plugs, it has a new dist. cap and coil.

I guess tomorrow I need to check all the grounds, but I am kind of baffled.

Any advice?

TIA,
Paul

John Rogers · 01-12-2002, 10:56 PM

I'd recommend checking the batt voltage at the batt and with lights on, etc. I had the same sort of thing happen to our stock 2.0l several months ago and although voltage wasn't too bad there was not enough current producing ability with the alternator and the regulator, alternator and batt all died away, but slowly. It was worse on cold days and got better when the car warmed up or without much electrical load. I had to have the alt load tested and it showed weak. I know it is a pretty good expense but the rule of thumb I have used for forty years of cars is to replace all three when one goes as the others are close behind. Good luck.

ejm914 · 01-13-2002, 06:12 AM

I agree with John, low voltage is the likely problem. Check the battery, charging system and ground cables first. Check the heavy red wires at the positive battery for tightness and corrosion. Measure the voltage drop at ignition terminal 15 when you turn the lights on, it should be similar to the drop measured at the battery. A bad ignition switch could cause the problems you describe. Good luck.

retro74 · 01-13-2002, 06:35 AM

Electrical problems are a bit frustrating. You'll need some emery cloth, thin round jewelers file and contact cleaner (Home Depot, etc.). As noted above, start at the battery and then check the ground stap to the chasis and the red wires to the starter system. Then the ground strap to the transmission in the rear (yet another 13mm bolt). Clean up all contacts.

Go to the relay circuit board and remove the voltage regulator (two screws on the side) and clean all contacts and pin holes.

The relay board connector on the firewall side goes into the wiring harness to the front of the car. Remove the connector (these things crack so watch the screwdriver). Clean up the connector and pin holes.

Climb under the car on the driver's side and look at the alternator wiring boot. Is it seated and is it solid (not cracked or damaged).

Do engine revs matter? Higher revs=brighter lights? Could be the voltage regulator or alternator or the connections thereto.

Battery is suspect at this point. Check voltage drop with lights on. Check same with flashers on. Check same with blinkers on, etc.

Good Luck.

Joe

paulhagedorn · 01-13-2002, 12:33 PM

Well, I guess I might have found the problem, knock on wood.

I cleaned the connections to the battery, then opened up the covers and checked the level of the water in the cells.
At least two cells were low, so I topped them off. Took the car for a spin, and after it got warm, turned the lights on...no sputtering.

The crazy thing about how the car was acting...it wouldn't do it while freely revving, just while in gear and lights on.

Maybe it is time for a sealed battery...and an optical pickup...

Times like these make me kinda want to get a new car...Still love the teener, though.

Oh, and for all the questions about the battery and charging system...I posted about a month ago on that.

paulhagedorn · 01-21-2002, 03:15 PM

Well, it seems as if the problems are still going on to some extent.

I did replace the alternator with a 55 amp rebuilt unit for $75.
Put in a brand new voltage regulator.
Put in a new battery.
Put in a new starter because i needed to.

The battery was sort of shot, due to one cell shorting. The alternator needed replacing: I had it checked out and they found it was weak, took it apart and found the bearing in the back had disintegrated.

I am not totally sure what this could be. The fuel filter was replaced about three months ago(the car has been running well for a few years now, and tank had been cleaned prior), the points were replaced, but the dwell angle is slightly off.

Could this effect the engine as described above? Maybe I need a new relay for the fuel pump...I have had problems with it in the past and replaced it with an old spare. What other electrical systems run through the circuit the headlights are on?

TIA,
Paul

bowlsby · 01-21-2002, 03:40 PM

The FP relay either works or it doesn't. If your fuel pump runs then the relay is good. If it is intermittent, then you might check the wiring, connections, grounds or just replace the relay.

The headlights are on dedicated circuits, 4 total, one each for high and low beam, 2 for each side, left and right. Only the high beam indiocator lamp on the dash is on one of the headlamp circuits, nothing else.

Maybe the current load from the headlights affects the FI circuit?

Checked the voltage at each injector with the engine running? should be about 3V.

retro74 · 01-21-2002, 03:59 PM

Before I begin, you should realize that I'm the idiot that had his car cut-out 5 times before I tested the fuel tank tube sender to find a broken wire from the idiotl light inside (I was out of gas). Anyway...

Scott Thatcher had me go to Radio Shack and solder 10 feet of speaker wire onto a 12V LED (resistor type). I used some shrink wrap tubing to make it look nice. I wired this directly to the two prong fuel pump plug under the car and the wire and LED sit in the car after being run through the chasis or just over the targa hoop for a temporary. You must attach positive and negative leads correctly. If it cuts out or sputters, is the LED lit?

Go to the circuit board in the engine compartment (Behind the driver) and remove all of the plugs and relays and connectors. Take off the board and clean it with Contact Cleaner. Use a Stanley-type razor plade or poscket knife and gently spread the X in all pin connectors on the wiring harness AND relays (somone here told me about the relays). Use some emory paper and clean these pins up if needed. Blast with contact cleaner.

Go to the fuse block under the dash and remove all fuses. Use emory paper to clean all fuse contacts AND the fuses too. Remove the two screws on the fuse plate and you will see some relays and your blinker assembly. Make some notes of what goes where and remove all relays. Clean all contacts with emory paper and blast with contact cleaner... The relays too.

Next step could be a faulty switch. Get under the dash and check it out.

Open the front trunk and remove and clean the headlight relays, open the X with a knife edge, blast connectors with contact cleaner....

If this does not help, remove one headlight so that the plug is disconnected. Give it a try. Now repeat the same procedure for the other headlight and try again. Did this isolate the short?

If not, unplug the tail-light bulbs in the same manner. Any change or improvement.

Good luck.

Joe

philinjax · 01-22-2002, 04:44 AM

Since you have replaced the alt, batt, regulator, do you have good voltage at the batt with engine running and all the electricals on? If you do and still have a stumbling, dying, engine, I suggest you check the fuel screen on the suction line inside the fuel tank. I have seen this screen clogged up with varnish to the extent that it will allow low speed, light accelerator, operation of the car but, when you thottle it, it so restricts the flow that fuel pump can't overcome the suction drag, pressure to the engine drops, engine stumbles.

You will have to drain the tank, pull the cap and cover off the top of the tank and stick your arm down in there to pull the screen off (It is a tube shaped screen about as long as you little finger).

Phil

JmuRiz · JmuRiz's Garage

I have a question on my electircals as well. Is it normal for the voltmeter to fluctuate when something like the turn signals are on. When I turn my signals on, have the lights on etc there is a noticible drop on my gague. I mean you can actually see it drop and rise between ticks on the turn signal flashing! Is this normal? Or do I need to check like above...all the contacts, including my gague connection? Thanks.

Nathan

John Rogers · 01-22-2002, 05:48 AM

Well I'm not sure if it is true on all 914s but the ones I own and several others I have looked at do have a fluctuating volt meter when turn signals, brake lights or backup lights are on. It is due to where the meter is connected into the system. A handy hint if you do time trials or driver ed events, adjust your brake light switch so it turns on the lights BEFORE any actual pressure is appplied to the brakes. Most people start braking when they see the brake lights on the car ahead come on, not where they are in relation to the braking cones so you'll gain 10 to 15 feet on the car behind you at every corner! Good luck.

kena · 01-22-2002, 10:09 AM

Paul please see prior post:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56177

I posted the same problem prior to you. I last thought it was an ECU idle mixture problem but now don't think so because the same problem you have keeps recurring. Lights or heater blower motor on and engine runs bad as if TPS is malfunctioning. Based on all the replies and parts replaced by others and yourself, I am certain it isn't the alternator/voltage regulator/dist./points/plugs/etc. I haven't been able to follow up on all the advice yet about shorts, bad grounds, corroded contacts...but I think that will end up solving the problem. The first one of us that has the time to follow all the advice given should hopefully solve the mystery "cold weather/electrical load" engine misfiring problem.

paulhagedorn · 01-22-2002, 02:10 PM

Thanks all for the suggestions...this weekend I will be looking at the car. Hopefully I can get the fuel low enough to be able to see inside the tank without taking it out....but most likely not. The items I replaced needed to be replaced, so I don't feel bad about the money spent. The points desperately needed replacement, as did the other parts. I am guessing that it is going to be something to do with connections in the car, and will hopefully find out...although I don't know if I am going to be able to pinpoint it to a certain thing because I don't want to do one thing, run the car and check, do another...etc.

Everyone hope for a clear weekend in Atlanta!

Paul(no garage and rain means no work on the car

).

paulhagedorn · 01-26-2002, 07:26 AM

Here is a picture of my TPS. Not the greatest of pictures, but it shows a little...Notice that the contacts on the TPS board are worn. Is there any way to fix the contacts by soldering on to them? The upper contacts are really worn. So much so that it is probably not making the best of contacts, and may be causing my problem. If anyone needs a better picture, I can try to take one for you.

Paul