Dreaming of Conversions (oh no!)

[Mockmaw]

I'm curious to know how one mounts a non-Porsche engine into the engine bay. Are you basically in the situation of fabricating your own motor mounts, or do companies sell motor-mount conversion packages (like KEP does with flywheels and pressure plates?)

[anthony]

Every 914 owner must have dreams of more horsepower. I know I do. Has anyone here every bought a Raby motor? I was thinking that the easiest most cost effection option would be to just buy or build a motor like this:

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/type4/2270/c.html

Sure, it doesn't have the power of a big 911 six or a V8 but it has 50% more hp than a stock 914 and 25 more hp than the orignal 914-6. It seems like it would be a nice compromise between dollars and hp.

Raby motors seem to have this great online reputation but I've never met someone who bought one. I'm curious how much it costs to ship one of these to the west coast. How much they give you in exchange for your core motor? What will be the lifespan of a 2270cc motor?

Also, what about the Raby "kits". Has anyone ever assembled one? They seem to do so much of the work in the kit that I don't understand why they just done fully assemble it.

[sammyg2]

KEP, renegade hybrids, and Rod Simpson all sell parts to mount conversion engines in 914s. If the truth were told, most of these parts probably come from KEP, and are just repackaged.

Simple is good. No bout adout it :-)

When I did my turbo, I was after simple. That is why I used a pull through type of system, with a large weber side draft carburetor. it worked well after I got the bugs out of it, but I could not run an intercooler with that set up. The turbo pulled air and fuel from the carb, so it was already mixed in the turbo. An intercooler would have caused the fuel to seperate and puddle at lower velocities.

With a push through system, an intercooler works well if you can find a place to put it, just like Dave said. You will need to get a lot of cool air to it, and that is a problem unless you want to mount in on top of the roof.

My system seemed to be happiest with around 6 or 7 psi boost. I had it up to 11 pounds, but that was hard on it even though it really scooted.

My total cost for the turbo system was well under $500, but some of it came with the car, and some of it I scrounged from junk yards.

[jabb]

Hey Paul:

Do not forget me..... Not Fairfield County but not that far
over in New Haven County

[SummerSledSix]

Paul, a teener is only an eyesore if A), more rust is showing than *any* color, and B), it's missing more parts than it's wearing, or C) it's hasn't moved under its own power in more than a year, or D) there's a tree growing thru some part of the chassis.

BTW, Joe, missed ya at the last club meeting - ya coulda won an original 914 LeMans poster!

[balthazar]

No one mentioned LNengineering's "nickies" in this thread, sooo...

Go to http://www.LNengineering.com and take a look at the nikasil plated piston and cylinder kits (nickies). Probably the primary concern of any aircooled turbo-charged engine is cooling (after you get it tuned!). The use of Nikasil plating allows you to run aluminium pistons and cylinders! This way you get FAR superior cooling and longevity. Just adding stock Nikasil plated piston/cylinders alone will increase HP from cooler heads! But because of the substantial heat reductions, you can go with pistons as big as 106mm+! LN also offers (soon) biral cylinders at a lower price. These offer better cooling (not as good as the "Nickies")than cast iron for a lower price than the "Nickies". Just my $.02 worth...

[anthony]

It seems like every thing at LN Engineering is still vaporware. I hope it all turns out as good as the marketing makes it sound because in a couple years I'll probably be shopping for more HP.

[balthazar]

Well, I don't know about all that, but I've talked with the owner of LN and also Jake Raby from RAT. They both have the "Nickies" for sale as we speak. Personally, I am waiting for the birals. They are not as salty as the nicks...

[Paul_Heery]

Joe -

I didn't forget about you. I just wasn't sure if you wanted to associate yourself with the likes of us.

Maybe we should plan an informal get-together after Larry gets his 914. My weekends are always free.

a teener is only an eyesore if A), more rust is showing than *any* color, and B), it's missing more parts than it's wearing, or C) it's hasn't moved under its own power in more than a year, or D) there's a tree growing thru some part of the chassis.

John -

I just checked:

A.) The Ravenna Green is winning the battle against the rust.
B.) The only missing parts are the R, C & E from the engine grill.
C.) It starts and moves on a regular basis.
D.) No sign of any vegetation.

Wow! You made me feel much better. I don't have an eyesore. I am the proud owner of a classic sports car.

BTW, I'll be able to make LRP on Saturday. I'll see you there.

[CHA914]

Sorry I am a bit late to the thread, but just to put my experience in...I have about 500miles on my Raby 2056...I really wanted the 2270 but it was a little out of my price range.

The engine is a fairly hot 2056:
8.8 to 1 compression
ported 2.0 heads
dual valve springs
everything cryoed
KH header w/supertrapp
dual 44webbers
split duration webcam
lightened flywheel (13lbs)

on the dyno it put out a peak 131bhp at 6k and 130tq at 4.5k

First impressions are...the motor has alot more torque than my previous 2.0L...the cam really comes on after 3k and pulls strong all the way to 6k. The light flywheel makes the engine really rev fast, almost effortless :P I havn't been beating on the engine too hard, but its really hard to take it easy with those big carbs singing behind your head I am in the process of adding a front oil cooler and then I will be ready for the track.

Its still no V8 but it really woke the car up and its still suprising me.

HTH,

Tony

[LarryP]

Neat. Really, really good to know. Was that the $4100 job?

[CHA914]

That sounds about right...I think mine was a little less but my core motor was in pretty good shape.

Tony

[DDS]

Thanks for posting that Tony - I too drooled over the 2270, but the cost was an issue. I'm beginning to assemble a similar 2056cc engine. What are the specs on your cam? Are you using stock valve sizes? Your measured HP is right around my goal!

[DrEBerg]

I'm still a junior here, but have been reading and talking to another east coast 914 guru, Andy Ratto in Queenbury NY about just the same things as you are. We've been restoring a 72 1.7 that was stock. First repaced cables, fuel lines,stainless brake hoses, rebuilt the calipers. Then moved onto suspention were we replaced the sagging springs with 110 lb ones, put a set of 4 new KYB's to help the ride. Replaced the 155's with 195-60's all around. Then took your guys advive and got a six spring clutch kit and side shifter and short shift kit into it. Even found a fuse box cover! This spring we've moved onto the bodywork and new paint. Even treated myself to a wooden momo wheel and shift knob and decent tape player( DIN style of coarse). Now accordingto the deal with my wife the car is done. But with such a sweet ride I'm itching to raise the 80 hp limit. Now my approach has been to maintain maximum stockness. I have no intention at this time to take to the track. I have to have a clear goal to define the final project on this car to sell the idea to my wife. Keeping it simple and cost effective, dont want a doomsday grenade. I'd like to get max stock hp, which will be a 2.0 Type IV with Euro P/C, stock FI and perhaps an external oil cooler. From what I understand I could get up to 110 hp which will match nicely with rest of my equipment. I havent driven too many 914's in different set ups but have heard that this mod should net some noticable improvent.

I submit my story with those with experience for feedback.And to those just dreaming, getting into these restorations is a blast and a great hobby for those with an aversion to all day hobbies like skiing and golf.

Ed

[maf 914]

Ed,

You're mods sound good. A fresh 2.0 will probably be a nice improvement too. If you are not already doing so, I suggest you visit the Type IV Forum at: http://shoptalkforums.com/

Lots of good info for T4 fans. The upgrade of 1.7 and 1.8 to 2.0 has been discussed many times. Good luck.

Mike

[DrEBerg]

hey thanks for lead, its now on my favorite list
ed

[LarryP]

Interesting. Sammy tells us it costs "at least" 4K to do a small six correctly. I assume there is no argument with this figure, but I notice that the lower output Raby motor costs the same. I notice too that it has essentially the same output as a small six. So, is the six conversion cost estimatefigure just for parts whereas the Raby motor is turnkey? Is that the difference? Or can I actually expect to get someone to turn a four into a six with a 4K check?

'Cause some of us (well, me, anyway) aren't so interested in making the engine into an extended hobby.

[Bleyseng]

I am assuming that "Sammy G" is talking about the six swap doing it "right" but going the swap meet route. Buy low - sell high, looking for deals and swapping for the parts you need but taking your time and doing the assembly yourself.
I have talked to Jake Raby too but for the $4100 -you still need carbs, oil coolers, other stuff to do it right and get it to run in the car.
Neither way has a cheap bottom line, more like a bottomless money pit.
I am staying with my 2.1L for now, spending my money on supension and tires for the track.
I'll keep my eyes out for a "firesale" or "divorce sale" six then go that route although the 102mm Nikkies are calling me......
Geoff

[J P Stein]

Lessee, off the top of my head.

Long block 500
Sold pistons (500)
head rebuild 800
machine work 450
Rebuild kit 600
new pistons 1000
chain boxes 350
cams 300
studs 175
bits & peices 250 (wag)

Total $3750=210/220 hp....long block

Did the assembly meself. Let's talk bang for the buck.

[sammyg2]

I see 2.0 and 2.2 engines for sale often, in running condition for around $1500. They are not fresh rebuilds, or hot rodded like JP's engine, but they are an economical way to do a conversion, at least in the short term. So that budget would be about $1500 for the engine, another grand for rebuilding carbs, tune up, etc. and $1500 for tank, oil lines, headers, etc.

That is how I could do it for the $4k figure. Using as many good used parts as possible. I really don't think that a small engine needs an aux. oil cooler.

A rebuilt engine would obviously cost more.
I figure I can do one for $4k, or I could do one for $40k. Depends on who's money I am spending :-)