Zinc additives

[andreic]

My mechanic, who's been working on Porsches for many many years, told me to look for oil with high zinc content, or to find an additive that supplements zinc in the oil. However, reading some articles on the net I found that many people don't believe in this. What should I do?

Right now I run Castrol GTX 20W50 in my 1.8L Porsche 914.

[luskesq]

Your mechanic is correct. As for those who don't believe in it's use, they are I suspect in the minority. I have read a number of threads, primarily on World & Club (and perhaps this board) discussing the need for zinc with our flat tappet engines. From those in the know, (I'm not one) all recommend the use of oil with zinc unless you want a prematurely worn out engine. I have yet to hear of anyone knowledgeable who recommends against it's use.

Keith

[chris_seven]

Joe Gibbs Driven XP4 -High Zinc Content 15/50W

[Joe Ricard]

Google Brad Penn oil as well. REALLY good stuff.

[kodabear]

Originally Posted by Joe Ricard

Google Brad Penn oil as well. REALLY good stuff.

Seems there are still people out therewho did not get the memo, The recent Mobil 1 15-50 formulation has a healthy 1200ppm of Zinc and is usually cheaper and a much better oil than that Brad Penn oil everyone was buying.

[monkeyboy04]

Oil is like religion, it gets people riled up quickly.

One thing I would recommend against is an additive. Anyone I have talked to that did testing found that the additives don't full integrate with the oil as it would if the oil was blended with the additive in the formulation.

I am not taking any chances, so I use the oil with the Zinc and Phosphorus built in.

I run Joe Gibbs aircooled oil myself.

[Scrappy]

Kendall GT1 with Liquid Titanium ... 'bout 1200 ppm

[Brant]

The Zinc and additives are absolutely required...


and oil formulas are changing all of the time
I challenge those of you claiming that mobil and others are "fine" to check the API starburst certification symbol on the packaging

all currently certified oils for highway use have met new API codes such as sm, sj, sl, and others.....
these oils do not have the correct zinc... memo or not...
they have had those additives removed to increase the lifespan of catalytic converters on new cars...

so if your oil is legal for a new car it is not good oil for a 914 (small block chevy, or any motor with flat tappets)

research and check
pay for an oil test
I used to be a mobil fanatic, but I do not believe any of the mobil products are made for "off road use only" as you will find you need for your 914 motor.

[Joe Bob]

Lot's of oil threads and more opinions. I use the Valvoline VR1 Racing formula. 20/50w. It goes on sale once a year at AutoZone and O'Reilly's.

[Beetle_X]

There were new cars still manufactured without roller lifters when zinc was removed. Isn't zinc an emergency additive and it does not even come into play unless there is what is considered no (film) so unless the engine is not run for months it does not ever mater? Making a pre-oiler out of a tree sprayer is a better Idea if the car sits for months at a time. I assume that engine break in lube must have emergency lubricant additives so this could be added to your oil too. Does gear oil still have zinc? It does not add up.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Tell that to the people who have had cams and lifters go flat in their 914 engines.

--DD

[Beetle_X]

Funny how a stock cam does not have the problems as performance ones do even if they are mild. Why is it that when a performance cam or lifter goes bad in a short amout of miles the damage is not even on all of the lobes/lifters, always just one or two?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

If you ran it long enough, there would be damage on all of the lobes.

Stock cams have indeed gone flat, sometimes in just a few miles. Performance cams have lasted a long time as well. There doesn't seem to be a consistent pattern, except that your odds are worse with current oil formulations and better with the older-style ones. Performance cams with big lobes and high spring pressures also seem to worsen your odds, but that seems reasonable if you're moving the lifters more and pushing them into the cam harder. And again, it's not universal.

LN Engineering has a nice FAQ. The question of metal-to-metal contact is addressed here: https://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html#Z3 The whole page is worth a read if you want to know about the whole zinc-level thing.

--DD

[Pete R]

There are places that sell little bottles of ZDDP that can be added to any oil, maybe you can get Pelican to sell it

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

I don't have any control over what Pelican carries. I'm also not sold on just dumping ZDDP into an oil, because there can be synergistic effects you cannot predict. Far better to use an oil that is formulated with a reasonable amount of it.

--DD

[carr914]

Originally Posted by Pete R

There are places that sell little bottles of ZDDP that can be added to any oil, maybe you can get Pelican to sell it

Not a Good idea - the Zinc does not fully mix into the Oil. Much better to buy a Formulated High Zinc Oil

[TheCabinetmaker]

From the LN article referenced above....

" EOS and STP are decades old, and proven products that work synergistically with your existing motor oil and were never designed to boost the Zn and P more than 100-200ppm - unlike some recommendations to run double the ZDDP, in excess of 2000 ppm, which can lead to increased wear! "


Although LN does recommend oils with the correct ZDDP formulation without the need for additives, LN does state that EOS and STP are proven to work "synergistically" as an oil additive. Note that LN does not recommend concentrations in excess of that recommened by STP or General Motors (EOS).

Thus per LN's article, STP or EOS will work within the recommended concentrations, but they prefer an oil that requires no additives

[larrym]

as of yesterday - the riley/autozone stores now have a zddp additive on the shelf - go buy it

i still have a NOS case of EOS that i can reach into, so you can guess what i think about this discussion

.

[rockerarm]

My opinions to follow. As it stands today, the majority of the over-the-counter oils that we see in the traditional auto parts stores are too weak in the additives. This was pushed by the feds who wanted car manufacturers to warranty cat's for a long time. It was believed ZDDP would coat/poison the cat above 60k miles, so reductions were implemented.
There are some lubes out there that will satisfy some stock cam/lifter/spring combinations. Boron is a relatively new anti-wear additive. Aftermarket cam/lifter/spring combinations will require a more robust additive oil. It has been written that the diesel rated oils, which, by the way, are dual rated, do not fall under the same limitations. If your climate allows it, the most common diesel oils are multi-viscocity at 15W-40. And there are a couple of variations in viscocity.
My personal daily driver is a '71 VW bus with a reground Web Cams cam/lifters and HD single springs. My oil of choice is the Chevron Delo or Shell Rotella, 15W-40. But, any of the popular diesel oils are so close in comparison. A tip worth considering is an oil from Mobil. A bit hard to find but it's called Delvac MX and has the additive level of the earlier oils. A helpful site is - Bob is the Oil Guy.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[Sir Nick]

As kodabear says above, Mobil 1 15w50 has the higher levels that older engines require. Newer water cooled Porsches have been engineered to coinside with newer oils without those additives. If you have a newer car, follow the manufacturer recomendations in your owners manual. You know, that book from the glovebox you threw away. What other air cooled engines are currently being made? You got it! Harley-Davidsons! Mobil 1 also makes a Harley spec. oil that will suffice for your older Porsche. Not only do those minerals degrade catalytic convertors, phosphorus, especially, is a pollutant and the feds are saying 'no no, bad dog'! That's why it's been removed from laundry detergents, too! And you thought your ol' lady wasn't getting the brown spots out of your shorts for spite!