stub axle removal

sleepdoc · 07-24-2002, 08:59 PM

Hi,

Once the inner CV joint is loose from the tansmission and
the brake parts are out of the way, and the castle nut is off
can the axel and stub axle be removed ( pounding or wheel puller) without damaging the rear wheel bearing?

My goal is to check for wear on the outer CV and don't
really want to fight with the outer CV to stub axle bolts while it is in the swingarm.

Thanks Mark

Brad Roberts · 07-24-2002, 09:24 PM

The brakes dont need to come off.

Flip the nut over backwards and make it flush with the threads.

Hit it with a soft face hammer to knock the stub axle out.

You will probably need to remove the starter to get the drivers side axle out.

After you get the axles out. Slide the stub axle into the outside of the drive flange to hold it while you break the CV bolts loose. Use the hand brake to hold the rotor from moving.

The wheel bearing will be fine.

B

sleepdoc · 07-24-2002, 11:08 PM

Thanks

perfect responce

best Mark

07-25-2002, 07:26 AM

Brad,

Do you have a trick for removing the rear wheel hub without damging the bearing??

Ken

sammyg2 · 07-25-2002, 07:47 AM

It would be very difficult to remove the hub without damaging the bearing. Since it is a press fit, you would either have to heat the bearing or shrink the hub. Either way, it is just a good idea to replace the bearing.

BTW, once you get the stub axle out of the car DO NOT ROLL THE CAR AROUND!

Without the stub axle the bearing will definitely get trashed if you try to roll the car around and could even fall apart. I would not even try to put any weight on that wheel until the axle is re-installed.

Brad Roberts · 07-25-2002, 10:16 AM

Ken,

I honestly have never thought about pulling the hub out without replacing the bearings. They are cheap. I think PP has them for 40-45$ apiece. I just replace them.

That doesnt answer you question, but I really cant think of way to get them out without one side coming apart and ruining the seals.

Sammy is correct.. the press fit kills it.

B

thesey914 · 07-25-2002, 11:42 AM

I just removed one of my bearings with out damaging it. Heat the control arm with a blow torch in-between the calliper mounts (remove callipers first) then soak the area behind the bearing with WD40 (you can just about get the bearing retainer off behind the stub axle-so soak this side too)
The heat will open up the aperture a couple of thou and the penetrative oil will "boil in". ( DON'T PANIC IF THE WD40 CATCHES FIRE-it probably will)

The idea is to heat a small area of the controll arm enough without heating the bearing inside.

I leave the assembly over night to let the oil really work (bearing is usually rusted in), then next day heat up the same area nice and hot and gently tap the bearing out.....if you have to twat it out you will damage it.
Heating the bearing will only cause it to expand and therefore tighten into the aperture.

Brad Roberts · 07-25-2002, 12:44 PM

It sounds like you removed the drive flange without taking the bearing off of it. You slid the whole thing out ??

This works. You can freeze the whole thing and it will slide back in.

I dont really like the idea of using heat anywhere near the bearing assembly. You stand a chance of cooking the grease inside the bearing and never knowing it until you get it all back together.

His question was:

"Do you have a trick for removing the rear wheel hub without damging the bearing??"

Let me know if you pulled the whole thing out or if you actually pulled the drive flange out of the bearing.

B

thesey914 · 02:01 PM

Yeah the hub came out with the bearing, then you can use a conventional bearing puller/splitter to remove the bearing should you need to.
The reason I said heat between the brake mounts is that they act as a sort of heat sink......the idea is to heat the control arm not the bearing
there is a lot of material around the bearing anyway so you'd have to be heating it for quite a while to get the outer race hot enough to damage the seals let alone fry the grease.

If the bearing is heated then it will start to expand too.
I took the seals off the bearing anyway (easy to do using a scribe or scalpel carefully) and re-packed them with quality bearing grease .
Not to sure about this freezing thing....this would cause condensation and with that moisture comes oxidation. But I can see the logic......Wish I'd tried that so I could opine...

Re- assembly is quite easy using the same process of heating same small area (remember only a few thou is needed) and then tapping in the bearing on the outer surface only.

PP tech articles has a home made puller that works made form two sockets and a length of threaded rod to insert the hub into the bearing.

anthony · 07-25-2002, 02:32 PM

I saw some kind of puller in the Performance Prod. catalog. Anyway, I just bought new bearings for $33/ea. for my 5 lug conversion. They have 150K miles on them, it's probably time to replacement them anyway.

Brad Roberts · 07-25-2002, 02:39 PM

I freeze the bearings and they slide right in. Havent worried about moisture too much. I leave them in the wax paper and in their boxes when I freeze them. What about rain water ????

Or I use the drive flange and the stub axle to pull them in.

Ha ha.. since I always replace them. I knock them out with a air chisel.. total time involved: 20 seconds (production shop..get paid by the hour). I dont care what happens to them...so...

I'm an as-hole. I would rather replace them both for 60$ (my cost) than take the time to heat and use the bearing puller/repack/pull seals/blah blah.

However..you are being very resourceful and I know getting parts in the UK is not as easy as it is for me.

B

John2kx · John2kx's Garage

Sammy,

Excuse my ignorance, but just trying to adhear to your warning about putting weight or rolling car around with "stub axle" removed. Is your definition of stub axle also called the wheel hub?

I've got my cv joints and drive shafts removed from transaxle to control arm and just wanted to make sure this is not the piece you were referring to which could cause damage to bearings if weight is placed on wheels with this piece removed. I can't invision how damage could occur with this assembly removed but I'm by no means a expert.

I also can't imagine rolling the car around with what I call the wheel hub removed.

Thanks for any clarification.

John

Brad Roberts · 07-25-2002, 03:02 PM

John,

90% of the time people pull the stub axle out with the axles.

The drive flanges are the lug bolt threaded/press in wheel bearing piece/ that the rotor screws too.

The stub axle and drive flange (bolted together) keep the wheel bearing halves from splitting apart under load. If you remove the stub axle (splined piece that the axle nut goes on) and roll the car around, it will ruin the bearings because they are not fully supported.

This doesnt happen over night... you can "move" it around, just dont go very far for very long with the full wieght of the car on the tires/wheels.

John2kx · John2kx's Garage

Thanks Brad! The pic attached and explanation really helped clarify.

After removing my cv's from flange to flange, I can see why people use the stub axle as a means of pressing this assembly toward transaxle. I pulled, yanked and finally got mine off only to find out later that I actually left the flange of one cv attached to stub axle secured by those metal dowels/pins. Removal of this flange inside swingarm took some doing but finally removed without disassembly of the stub axle. I'm sure you've been there, done that.

I've yet to disassemble the whole banana but will when it comes time to upgrade to 5 lug. Hopefully my understanding of the system will be better after performing this step. Looks like Pelican has a good article for doing this.

John

Brad Roberts · 07-25-2002, 03:44 PM

No problem.

I like the fact that we can post pics here and I dont have to put pics on my server and send out hyperlinks to them. The Yahoo groups are the same way.. turn on HTML (after turning it off for Rennlist) and I can add picks and make comments about the pics.

It makes getting the point across much easier and much faster.

I'm going to get spanked for this (watch) but be careful when using some of the PP "how to's" some of these are written by people who have done the "how to" project ONCE or twice and dont fully cover all the possibilities on what can happen. I dont expect them too, I'm just surprised PP doesnt have real mechanics go over this stuff.

Dave Darling for President.

maf 914 · 07-26-2002, 11:42 AM

Brad, Is that a four bolt hub drilled for five bolt? Is it an early hub with the 5 bolt bosses or a late hub with only 4 bolt bosses? If the late style, have you experienced any problem with the studs?

Also how is it finished? Paint? My hubs are just bare metal with a slight red oxide coating, aka rust!

Thanks for posting the picture.

Mike

Brad Roberts · 12:00 PM

Hey Mike,

Cant wait to come visit you and run the 914 reunion one day.

Anyway.. the one pictured is a regular 4 bolt hub converted to 5.

Here is the story: Circa 1990, I'm parting out a very early production 1970 914/4. I pull the hubs out of the control arms and notice the raised bosses that they would have used for a 9146. I run these over to the only other 914 guru I know at the time and he flips out.."COOL" At this point he was just getting started in selling all his 5 lug conversion parts. Quote: I bet I can get more money for these "they will be stronger".

Rich Johnson and I have been friends for a awhile now.

I have NEVER seen a regular 4 lug hub fail (that was converted to 5 lug) and I have used them in cars with over 450hp and 400+ lb feet of torque that where drag raced regulary (only had drag strips in NorTex).

Watching people pull their hair out looking for these early short production run hubs is great.

Brad Roberts · 07-26-2002, 12:05 PM

Sorry,

Forgot to answer the rest of your question (hub paint)

http://www.Por15.com Invest now and never look back.

I'm to the point that we are spraying this stuff onto ALL of the race/street tubs that are being built in my shop.

The stuff is a street rodders dream come true.

Goes on nice and is damn near bullet proof.

Pelican should think about being a dist. for them. Lord knows all the early Porsches need this stuff.

B

thesey914 · 07-26-2002, 12:19 PM

I have used them in cars with over 450hp and 400+ lb feet of torque that where drag raced regulary

Phew, that reassuring...wish I had your comments to print out to show the engineering shop when they drilled mine 4 to 5 stud.
They were a bit concerned about the reliability issue.
When I took my hubs off to my surprise I had one early 5 boss compatible and one later 4 boss only.
The only difference is once the bosses were spot faced the bolts are longer on one side than the other .

BTW. Or I use the drive flange and the stub axle to pull them in. /me slaps forehead...so simple why didn't I think of that !!!
Cheers

Brad Roberts · 07-26-2002, 12:38 PM

Ha ha.. I have a few years of doing this at the race track and in a shop.

Its amazing what you learn when under the gun to get a car on the track after a failure of some sort.

I cant promise your's wont fail tomorrow, but I can promise they wont fail if you use a TORQUE wrench to tighten your lug bolts each time.

My last visit to your homeland left me stranded most of the time.

Petrol crisis back in 00.

B