Conversion to Front Coilovers

Ed S · 08-26-2002, 09:02 AM

I am converting my front from 914-6 to a 911 struts/coilovers. I have 180# springs in the back. Can someone who has done this answer a few questions for me.

Do I use my stock torsion bars in the new setup?

Do I need my anti-sway bar?

Do I need to reinforce the top area?

Thanks for your information in advance!

Ed S
NorthROLLERCoaster

JWest · 08-26-2002, 09:33 AM

I'm a little confused as to what you have.

What exactly are you using? If it is an aftermarket coilover setup for a 911, then check with the manufacturer as to the setup - it will be the same for teh 914 as for a 911.

If it is a stock 911 front suspension, then it is not a coilover suspension, and is basically a bolt-in.

You would probably want to retain your sway bar.

No reinforcement should be required.

Ed S · 08-26-2002, 09:39 AM

I just bought a used 911 struts with coilovers, not new. So I am looking for the proper setup methods.

I know how to install the struts, but didn't know the torsion bars, etc.

JWest · 08-26-2002, 10:01 AM

I think you really need to know who made the coilovers and how the manufacturer intended them to be used. Are they light springs intended as helpers to the torsion bars or are they heavy so no torsion bar is required?

Ed S · 08-26-2002, 10:08 AM

They are 250# springs, so I think they must be more tham just helper springs. I do not know the brand name. Will contact seller for info.

JWest · 08-26-2002, 10:13 AM

That sounds like it should be run without the torsion bars. If you are going that serious on the suspension I think you would be going with adjustable sway bars and you need to find out how you can set them up based on the rules of the class you are racing in. Your not trying to run this setup on the street are you?

Ed S · 08-26-2002, 10:19 AM

Well.... Maybe sometimes when I want to go out on a Sunday and cruise through our nice park system...., but not on a daily basis. I am basically setting up for a DE or autocross car.

John Rogers · 08-26-2002, 11:59 AM

The 914s I've seen with front coil-overs all had the strut mounting area replaced with an aftermarket fabrication with a much heavier piece of steel to take the shock of the suspension loads. When I asked why, the owners said the stock sheetmetal ripped out from the load. Good luck.

JWest · 08-26-2002, 12:08 PM

The shock tower should be designed to take the near infinite spring rate that occurs when the suspension hits the bump stop, but according to John, real world experience shows otherwise.

Ed S · 08-26-2002, 12:18 PM

When you say "replaced with an aftermarket fabrication with a much heavier piece of steel", are there kits to reinforce the area? I have been searching the web, and didn't see anything for that area.

ed

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Places that know about serious 914 race-prep (or serious 911 race-prep, the front suspension is essentially the same) will be able to provide the upper strut mounting reainforcements. Brad from Trackaccess (dotcom) posts here, and a quick look through the pages of Excellence magazine will also give you a list of companies.

Yes, reinforce the upper strut mounts. No, don't use any torsion bars. Yes, it's a good idea to swap the A-arms out for something lighter and less substantial, because they don't carry the whole load of the car any more--the strut does. (Less unsprung weight, woo hoo!)

In general, this mod is for really heavy-duty racers only. You usually only go to coilover suspension in 911s (or 914 fronts) when you cannot fit torsion bars that are fat enough to give you the spring rate you need.

If that isn't the case here, then stick with torsion bars. It's a lot simpler just using the existing parts than having to do the cutting and welding required for coilover stuff. ...Unless you really need the "cool factor" of having coilovers all the way around...

--DD

mike mueller · 08-26-2002, 03:05 PM

Scary that you ask the first 2 questions, why are you doing this if you don't know these 2 answers??

Because someone said you should swap these in????

I'm not trying to be an @ss, but it sounds like you are just doing it to do it and you do not know why you are doing it....

If you do plan on racing or auto-x'n, find out if these are legal in the class you want to run in.

Mueller

JWest · 08-26-2002, 03:12 PM

Thanks Mike, that's what I was getting at but I didn't want to sound like a jerk.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

He got them because they were on a cheap deal and considered them as an upgrade.....BTW....most 914 sheet metal mods are do it yerselfers.

I needed an extra bit of help on my front end....the front of the a arms punched up threw the pan on my 1970 914/6.....I was running BIG sway and torsion bars....I got a little airborne one day and then noticed some shimmy at high speed.

Ended up doing a major reinforcement of the pan in the trunk....never found the need to do coil overs, but they would be good for quick custom adjustments for the track......as to driving a race prepped car on the street....go for it. Soften up the springs if you can.

Our old backs are as resilient as they used to be.....

Ed S · 08-26-2002, 05:13 PM

You guys are right, I don't know all of the answers.

And yes, I am doing this because in my research, that is the setup I wanted. I've asked some people who have the setup I got different reasons/points of views about the setup.

It is not up to you to remind me of what my class rules are, or to judge me that I really don't need this setup. You don't know about my past Formula V racing, or SCCA autocrossing, etc, yet you think because I do not possess the particular knowledge on this 914 setup, that I must not know anything.

I wrote to you guys, because Mike Z said you guys were very knowledgeable, and so I thought I would see how your views match the others. But from your view comes from, I don't need the smell...

I'll look elsewhere for support. Thanks

John Rogers · 08-26-2002, 09:03 PM

I guess a front coil over setup is a little too radical for many folks here? The ability to corner balance the front much more accurate than t-bars and to be able to get springs in small incremental pressures is a big advantage. The full bore POC/PCA race 914s use this. For vintage racing it is not legal. You can get the needed replacement sheetmetal at Smart Racing Products as well as others. Their website is:
http://www.smart-racing.com Good luck.

rich · rich's Garage

Your initial question seemed vauge to me. It appears others in the group were searching for more info as well. I guess if you would have given us a little background first and then stated your questions, you may have been able to get a little more info. This is a friendly group of people. We don't have crystal balls. (at least I don't LOL) If you didn't get what you thought you should get for free from people that have never seen your car or parts, then repost the question or bring the car to a race shop and see what you get there for free. Mikez is a well respected member here and happens to know what he's talking about when offered his reference. If you ask your questions clearly and realize that were not standing next to you looking at your parts, you may some day earn the respect of others on this BBS. After all you are in probably among the largest gathering of 914 owners on the www. And it is our experience you desire for free. An old Attorney friend once said "Who's got the problem ?" Once you get some wiskers you negitive additude should mellow. Do us a favor and trade the 914 for for something else. Or you could apologize and we'll share our experiences.

P.S. in all fairness to the brit car i kinda picked on. I take it back, and did

JWest · 08-27-2002, 05:04 AM

This is standard operation for a BBS. You ask a question, and you will get opinions on why you should try something else. Sometimes this is the best solution, sometimes not. You can't be sensitive about it or you will get your feelings hurt.

To me, 180# springs in the back of a 914/6 does not sound too radical (I think some of our members are running close to these with a mild front bar increase). Combined with VERY stiff front springs, I think the car will massively understeer. With the info you gave us (the only thing we had to go on), it seemed like a situation like putting a giant rear wing on a stock 1.7 914 - the rest of the setup just does not warrant the use of that one component.

Sorry you were offended, but your question just left too many openings. People here are friendly and try to help, but they also have opinions and personalities. Let it go, and ease back in - you'll get to like it.

Ed S · 08-27-2002, 09:10 AM

Thank you John Rogers. I just talked to them, and they were very informative with what is required. You were a big help!

I never asked anybody if I should do it, or if it is worth it, just since I am doing it, any guidance.

So if you had confusion, then ask me about the entire setup, how I choose the 250 # springs, etc. Your confusion should have been about the mechanicals, not my motivation.

I could have easily just wrote out a check and bought a prepped car, but I enjoy the entire experience. And up until now, this was the best experience of all of my cars. I am looking for a FUN FAST car, and that is all.

mike mueller · 08-27-2002, 10:02 AM

Quote:

It is not up to you to remind me of what my class rules are, or to judge me that I really don't need this setup. You don't know about my past Formula V racing, or SCCA autocrossing, etc, yet you think because I do not possess the particular knowledge on this 914 setup, that I must not know anything.

Your first two questions really have nothing to do with this being a 914 or not, to me and others it sounded like you knew nothing about suspensions and that you might be getting in over your head. Just trying to save you some head aches in the future.

I almost went this route 'cause I thought having coilovers would be neat to have, but I was later convinced it was a waste of money for my application....hey it's your money and car, do whatever knocks you out.

My suggestion to you (and everyone that likes to drive) would be to buy a few books on street and race suspensions.

Had you NOT asked the first two questions, this post would have turned out completely different.