questions with all this track talk...

[derek_sf]

how limited is a narrow body 914 going to be? are the similar flared cars going to be lapping it? my goal at some point is a narrow 3.2 car, proper brakes, suspension, etc. by no means a "race" car. more of something for fun on the backroads mostly with trying the track here and there. with the tire widths and HP output is it going to be too squirrelly for harder driving? or will it suffice? will people laugh?

[campbellcj]

You may end up somewhat on the ragged-edge of controllability, but keep in mind that the stock 3.0 and 3.2 911 cars only ran 205 & 225 rubber (F/R). That's about what the typical 914-6 GT flared car is running too. Not exactly 14" slicks by any means.

The difference in contact patch between a 205 and a 225 is very small, perhaps ~1 sq inch?

Personally I'm not terribly fond of the GT flare look, so I plan to keep my car narrow body but will some possibly significant pulling and lip-rolling. I'll be running 205/50 DOT-R tires on 15x7 wheels for starters.

If I ever have a widebody car, it will be a truly wide body, like a Sheridan kit, Dzus fasteners, 12" slicks and so on. I see very little point to cutting the hell out of my fenders for another inch of wheel & tire (GT flares) at this time.

Another point is that if you do get into competitive event stuff, the classification schemes usually take wheel and tire size/type into account.

[mike mueller]

Scott has a 3.0 in his 914...no flares, 7" rims ( i think) under the stock fenders (might be rolled a little at the most)

he kicks some serious tail in that car with 911's out there with him...it's neat to see a stock bodied car battling it out with cars with huge flares and fenders...must be embarrasing a little for the other guys......

I heard that in the HSR (historical something) cars lose 7mph on some of the straights with the GT flares so most of them prefer no flares..

a lot of it comes down to the driver.....12" slicks and a 400hp motor will only do so much if you cannot drive

no one is going to laugh......

[derek_sf]

this is good to know. I like the flare look, but don't like the fact of having to spend so much on body work to get it. I'd be interested in hearing how the orange 914-6 3.2 B just finished does out there.

I know what you mean saying it comes down to the driver. a friend took the porsche driving school in atlanta. students were all in 996's and were let loose first. the instructor was in a standard boxster (I believe it was hurley haywood). he was literally lapping the field after some time out there.

I just want to make sure I start planning this the right way, I don't need to be Schumacher, but I also don't want a car that can't be controlled due to the HP/tire mismatch. sounds like I would be fine.

[scg]

Have you seen these http://metalshapers.org/cgi-bin/community/communityalbums.cgi?action=openalbum&albumid=9980109691714 from John Kelly? (this pelican thread web site for flare pictures )

If I wasn't happy with the "narrow" look, I'd pay for these for sure!

Scott

[derek_sf]

yeah I saw those, looks like he is doing a good job. I'm just really a factory nut, so if I flared it would be GT steel ones. when/if I find a car I will try narrow out and see what I think. if it's so bad, I could always get the flares done later.

where is my minty '73-'74 signal orange or metallic silver car!?

[Zeke]

Originally posted by derek_sf
will people laugh?

Hardly, they will admire.

[SummerSledSix]

I'm running 205's and a 3.2, and (once I tightened up the front sway bar a bit) am having a squirrel-free blast. "Squirrely" is more a function of the driver than the tires / engine (ask me how I know...). Sure, wider tires enable you to corner faster, but that is not a stock teener's weakness. They also will mask bone-headed driving and give a false sense of security. Narrow tires will teach you car control (and respect) quicker, with a boatload of fun in the process. "Will they laugh?" Not when you're routinely passing them in the straights. Even with a 3.2, you're still hundreds of pounds lighter than the luxo-11's, and that means comparable stopping power with smaller tires / brakes. The place to learn this stuff is at a track or AX, not on public roads. If your primary aim is occasional recreational speeding, save the widebody thing for last, there's loads of fun, learning, and tweaking in between.

[derek_sf]

john,

thanks for your perspective on things. I think I'll stay narrow with the small tires, doesn't sound so bad. I'll probably have a better braking setup than the 911's, the light 914 with 12" vented rotors and 944T 4 piston brembo's, possibly even vented rears with boxster monoblock calipers also.

can't wait to throw my stash of parts onto a car!

[914timo]

Don´t worry Derek. I don´t have such a brakes and my engine is only 3.0L, but I think we have a common idea about our cars.

After the engine swap I was worried about the rear tyres too if they are too narrow. They are only 205/50x15. I thought about installing GT flares too, but they need too much work and I should paint my car again.

My impression with 205s is, that the width is enough. The problem is the height. The gear rations of stock 901 are too short with my combo. I just need to get higher wheels and tyres.

Timo
´71 914-6 3.0L

[derek_sf]

I would be putting 16x6 fuchs on my car to accomodate the large front calipers. I hear 205 55's work well with this setup and it seems the popular tires come in this size.

[rfoulds]

I am running a 2.7 with 220hp and with the right suspension set up, and the right 205 tires, (Hoosiers or Kumos) there is no way I am over driving the tires.

You will be suprised how much grip you have with the right suspension and competition tires.

If you run street tires, it won't matter how wide they are, they won't stick.

[derek_sf]

I see the kumho's don't come in a 16" size which would work for me, but the yokohama A032R's do. has anyone used these before? wonder what the street/track performance is like, and how fast they wear.

[rfoulds]

Kuhmo v700 comes in 205/45-16. The Yoko AO32R is what I am running now. They are about the same as the Kuhmo. Both wear the same, (700-1,000 miles of DE or autocross) which is better than Hoosier. The Kuhmos have an edge when it comes to wet grip.
Both the Yokos and the Kuhmos are better than street tires but the Hoosiers stick WAY better.

[derek_sf]

hmmm, those don't last long! I was hoping for a tire which would last for the road and track. more road than track driving. two sets might be the answer, although not easy to haul to the track.

[rfoulds]

That mileage is only for time and miles spent on track. With the Yokos I do drive it on street as well, and you can easily put another 5-10,000 miles of street driving on them.

In my limited experience, 20 laps of a 1.8 mile road course is about the same as 500 miles of street driving. The miles you put on them on steet are inconsequestial.

But if you can, seperate track wheels and tires are great.

If the car will be a daily driver or weekend cruiser and only occasionally see a track or autocross, then go for the Yoko AO32R or the Kuhmo. You will get enough street miles out of them and still have fun on the track.

[derek_sf]

thanks randy, sounds like I will go with a single set. the car will not be a daily driver, just mostly weekend backroad fun and the occasional trip to the track. appears the kumho's at 205 45 16's are the closest to stock height. the stocks were 165 65 15's right?

[rfoulds]

Dunno stock sizes, sounds right though.

Remember that the 205 size means you will probably have to roll or flatten the lip on rear fender. But that ain't bad.

Good luck.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

No aspect ratio on the stock size, just 165R15. Depending on who you ask, that means a "default" aspect ratio of 78, 80, or 82.

--DD

[derek_sf]

thanks dave, sounds like the 205 45's will be too short then, probably 55's are better.