Cleaned dizzy now car won't run

Bruce Allert · 12-11-2002, 05:26 PM

On my 73 1.7 D-jet I got spark but it looks intermittant between the points. It sparks on one lobe then skips 2 or 3 then sparks again. It runs for a second or 2 then won't even do that unless I let it sit for 10 -15 minutes. I gotta admit I'm stumped. I'm going to pull the valve cover for #1 to be absolutely sure I'm at TDC on the comp. stroke. I put in a new condensor... no help. The old one was only a month used. (grasping at anything). Pressure gauge says 29-30 psi. I just don't know what I'm missing

bruce
ps. I pulled the dizzy to clean it because it was missing. The warmer it got the worse it misssed except at WOT.

boxstr · 12-11-2002, 05:52 PM

Did you thouroghly clean the contact patch on the points themselves?
Craig C. Laughlin CAMP 914

hardflex · 12-11-2002, 05:56 PM

not sure exactly what you're saying here, but I think I'd try this.
make sure the points are closed, then manually push open the points with a screwdriver. it should spark everytime you do it, a nice heathy spark out the high tension of the coil, and a smaller spark at the points. if it doesn't it's either points not making contact or a weak condenser (seems unlikely you'd have two bad one's though)

if it does spark everytime, look to make sure the points are actually breaking current. Can you put a dwell meter on it, that would tell you.

I do remember buying non bosch points/condensor set once that went bad in a very short time, like 100 miles or so.

PD

Bruce Allert · 12-12-2002, 07:25 AM

If I am thinking about this right I should be able to bring #1 to TDC (I'll remove the SP and feel for it to be sure), put the rotor to the TDC mark on the dizzy, adjust the points at .016, drop the dizzy in and tighten it down... then it should, at least, start, right?
bruce

jackmech · 12-12-2002, 08:21 AM

The distributor only goes in one way, so it doesn't matter where the crank is located. You might check to make sure you're getting the distributor installed all the way down, it's easy to get it installed only part way on accident. As you're sliding the shaft in (hehehe) twist the rotor around and at some point it will line up and you won't be able to turn the rotor anymore. Push down hard and make sure you haven't trapped any wires or hoses between the dist. and the case.

Also, check the points plate ground wire. It might be loose or broken, causing intermittent connection to ground.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Have you checked that you are getting a spark??

How about fuel? Are you getting any fuel?

A no-start problem usually means you need to go back to the basics.

Is the coil hooked up correctly? No wires unplugged? Head temp sensor wire plugged in? ...And so on.

--DD

Bruce Allert · 12-12-2002, 10:15 AM

As far as I can see everything is hooked up. The fuel pressure gauge shows 29-30 psi. I will remove it to be positive that it's fuel that's giving me the pressure reading. I don't think the pump will push just air but I'd rather be sure. Head temp plugged in. I checked it more than once because the dizzy clamps keep hitting it when I remove the cap. I took the dizzy out again last night to be sure it was clean enough down by the weights & contacts. Sprayed more elec. contact cleaner in it and more gunk came out. I'll keep trying and WILL get it sooner or later. I just can't bring myself to take it to someone when I was the one to cause this! (I think)
bruce

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Check for spark by taking a spare plug and wire and plugging them into the center terminal on the coil. Tape the plug so that the threads touch a ground. Have someone crank the starter, look for sparks at the plug.

As for fuel, do you smell fuel at the tailpipe after cranking the starter? To be more certain, you can pull an injector or two and stick them into glass jars. Have someone crank the starter while you look and see that the injectors are squirting fuel.

--DD

pbanders · pbanders's Garage

A quick and dirty way to see if your trigger contact points are working at all (and whether you're getting injector operation during cranking) is to turn on the ignition, and without starting the car, open up the throttle slowly. You should hear a series of clicks from one injector group as the accelerator traces are contacted in the TPS. No clicks? Then either both your trigger contact points are closed or both are open. Only when one is open and one is closed will you hear the injecto clicks. If you don't hear the clicks, make sure to bump the engine position slightly and try again, as there is about a 10 degree (of dizzy rotation) "dead zone" where both trigger contact points are open. If you happen to be on that spot, you won't hear injector clicks.

Bruce Allert · 12-12-2002, 01:08 PM

OK... it started and idles quite nice. I honestly don't know what I did other than taking out the dizzy, taking it apart and re-cleaning with elec. connector spray. I left it overnight to thoroughly dry then, after dwelling on it all morning at work, I took a long lunch and put the dizzy together. Lined everything up & slid it in. At first it didn't want to mesh with the slot below even while turning the rotor. I could feel it just touching, then, after a few turns, it caught. Tentatively I put the cap on & plugged everything in and hit the remote starter. There again, I don't know what I did.
I'm going back to work now with a better focus on what I need to do then I'll come home and finish timing it.
Brad, I did hear the clicking while moving the throttle but, at the time, I didn't know what it was telling me. Those contacts were my big worry.
thanks guys for the input.
bruce

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

[Rats, posted out of order... I'm referring to Brad Anders' trigger point troubleshooting two posts above.]

Of course, this is a great way to kill a Pertronix. They evidently like to die if the ignition is left on for more than about 30 seconds without the engine running....

(The new Pertronix 2 can supposedly deal with that situation.)

--DD

Bruce Allert · 12-12-2002, 03:04 PM

Dave, I'll remember that when it comes time to do the switch. That's a helluvaway to BURN up 60 bucks. There are times when I've had my ignition on for 30 secs. or more just space'n out (sit'n there think'n "man, I'm sit'n in my Porsche") ! Y'all know how it is don'cha'know,hey

bruce

pbanders · pbanders's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave at Pelican Parts
[Rats, posted out of order... I'm referring to Brad Anders' trigger point troubleshooting two posts above.]

Of course, this is a great way to kill a Pertronix. They evidently like to die if the ignition is left on for more than about 30 seconds without the engine running....

(The new Pertronix 2 can supposedly deal with that situation.)

--DD

Jeez, what a piece of junk. One of the things I really liked when I converted to Crane ignition was not having to worry about having my ignition on with the points closed.

I guess there's a good reason there's a Pertronix 2

Brad Roberts · 12-12-2002, 05:05 PM

30 seconds Dave ??

Next event I'll drive the wifes 914 and we will leave it on for 15 minutes. I'll chop the Pertronix up and eat it if it fails..

They are not the best in the world, but I still have only had one fail after the owner set the wires so they could "chafe".

I am using both Crane and Pertronix in the cars.

B

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

How old is Lyrissa's Pertronix? (Jeez, that sounds like the start of a bad joke...) The older ones seem to hold up better than what they're making now. The instructions that come with new ones state not to leave the ignition on without the car running for (I think it was) 30 seconds... And with all the reports of Ignitors dying, I'm thinking they're not that far wrong somehow.

Whatever--I'm happy I have a Crane optical points replacement, not a Pertronix Ignitor. No worries about that kind of issue.

BTW, the dead Pertronix usually seems to have solder oozing out the sides. Overheat-o-rama!!

--DD