914 w/turbo, new purchase, need info

[914turbo]

I recently purchased a sweeeet '73 914 2.0 with a turbo. It looks bone stock from the outside with the exception of a small "turbo" badge on the rear panel.
I'm still investigating all the features and history of this car, but here's what I know so far. It still has the stock FI installed. The turbo started out as a kit built specifically for 914's ( by Crown Manufacturing, I think they did Corvair mods mainly). Later an intercooler was added as well as a cockpit adjustable boost controller, a TracII ignition/ turbo retard system from J&S Electronics, a Permatune module and water injection. The test drive sold me on the potential of this puppy. When it's cold and the boost comes on around @4000 rpm, it flat ROCKS! I've owned about 15 914's prior and none of them kicked like this one!

There does seem to be some issue with it when it gets warmed up, as it starts to miss intermittantly at a steady crusing rpm (2,000 to 3,000rpm). I think the boost control is cracked or broken as it seems to be sucking air, possibly leaning it out and/or not allowing the wastegate to open.

BTW, anybody know how to contact Crown Manufacturing or R.P.M. Custom & High Performance in Winston Salem NC ? The phone numbers I have are no good. R.P.M. Custom appears to have done most of the later developement work on this car.

[mike mueller]

A few on this list have tried to contact anyone at Crown but no such luck. You are the third person that I have heard of with a Crown manufactured turbo kit, the other two are still sitting in their garage

While cruising at that rpm that you are haveing trouble with, you shouldn't really be making any boost unless at WOT and at that I doubt would be much until the rpms go much higher.

First I'd say to address the problem as if the car is normally asperated, then find out if it is boost related. Post pictures and do a search on this site.....someone posted pictures of the installation diagram about a year back.

[914turbo]

Thanks for the reply Mike. I did get the Crown turbo diagram and installation instructions along with some other doumentation. I was more interested in possible parts availablity and specs on the turbo itself.

[sammyg2]

I tried to find crown a couple years ago. I traced them to Newport Beach but then the trail died and it appears they are no longer in business or may have changed names.

[Rich Hilgersom]

Crown was owned by Ted Trevor.

Here is a pic.
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/crown1.html

I located a probable address and phone number. Email me for the details.

Clark's Corvair Parts 413-625-9776 may have some of his old stuff.
http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.cgi?category=home


Regards,
Rich Hilgersom

[914turbo]

Thanks for the info! Put the same question out to a couple of other forums, and this is the first good lead that I have received.

[914turbo]

Reset timing to stock specs and turned boost way down and the miss is gone, but seems a little sluggish. Almost caught the car on fire on the drive back home. Seems as though the turbo resides a little too close to the rear trunk floor. Upon arrival at home I discovered that the trunk carpet above it was smoking / scortched!! Went to the local speed shop and picked up a turbo wrap kit.

BTW, the speed shop's name is R.A.M. , not R.P.M. as previously posted.

Rob

[mike mueller]

Is this your first turbocharged car?

I say buy a few turbo specific books...read them to get some better ideas on your setup before you blow something up


Turbochargers and timing that is too far advanced do not play together well.....you could buy a unit that'll allow you to advance the timing "until" boost is created, then this device backs off the timing to help prevent detonation.....

[914turbo]

Thanks for the advice! I plan on picking up a copy of Turbomania ASAP. The TracII ignition/ turbo retard system from J&S Electronics in it is supposed to allow changes to static timing and boost via two knobs on the dash. I just need to verify that the unit actually works.

[ReZ]

Perhaps when the engine is warm, the plugs are running too hot. But I don't think that is the issue... Just a hunch.

Check the air/fuel ratio. EGT temp gauge helps also. Maybe you are running way lean. Lean mixtures=too much air, not enough fuel=detonation = blown up motors. I think your problem lies here. What are you boosting? How many fuel injectors and what size? I'm assuming 4. Maybe the injectors are maxxed out. Perhaps your fuel pump is not strong enough and not giving the adequate fuel pressure along with a Fuel Pressure Regulator....

There are many things that could be wrong. You got to take it step by step.

My main guess is timing could be too advanced and the other is not enough fuel.

[John2kx]

Do you have a dyno shop in your area? I took mine today and was amazed at the information available.

The issue of running too lean would be my number one concern and can be obtained from a dyno for all rpm ranges.

The $65-$100 you will spend should give you a good baseline and a great way to monitor progress vs. seat of the pants. As my buddy says, "run it lean once, run it rich forever".

John

[914turbo]

ReZ, yes this is definitely a 'step by step' proposition. I was thinking colder plugs too. I've purchsed W6DC plugs to try.

After reading "Turbomania", I'm also thinking that the water injection is an integral part of the setup and not just an "enhancement." I want to test the water injection system before actually using it.

No idea what boost is, as I'm doing good just to keep it out of redline between shifts on boost. I may need a copilot (a.k.a. data recorder) to see what's going on. I just missed a dyno session with the local porsche club, only $35!

This teener also has an EGT guage, but the pickup has long ago perished. Any ideas on where to get a new one?

The exhaust and plugs don't look too lean, but maybe under boost it is.

The car is running 4 stock injectors with a kit /aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, which I assume (hope) allows higher pressure under boost.

I not sure the stocker can flow enough fuel under boost , but here goes. According to "Tubomania", a 200 hp VW motor would require an injector (@80% duty cycle) to have an output of 31 lbs /hr. The Haynes manual lists (minimal?) delivery rate of 13.2 gal/hr. If fuel weighs about 6 lbs per gal, then the (minimal)output is 79 lbs /hr. Which raises another question. Is Haynes stating output for 1 injector or all 4?
And what is output at maximum? Any idea where I could get this info?

I've also got to check the fuel filter to make sure it isn't plugged, test the turbo ignition retard module, test the turbo & boost adjustment control, etc etc.

Thanks for all the ideas and input!

Rob

[Bleyseng]

The story I have heard is that the 2.0l injectors provide enough fuel under boost. Jeff S is running a 2.0l turbo w/ Djet. He says under boost he is shooting a 3' flame out of the tailpipe. Now that intimidates the ricers he is racing!
Search for his old posts. I think he is rebuilding the motor at the moment.
Geoff

[Ron Meier]

You should be able to pickup an EGT probe at an aircraft supply.

Can't remember where I read it - prolly PBanders site on the d-jet, but the 1.7 injector is like 236cc/min and the 2.0 is 326 cc/min or something like that. If so, .326 X 60/.2642=5.16 gallons per hour and 92 octane is 6.4 lbs/gal sooooooo = 5.16 X 6.4 = 33.024 lbs/hr @ 28 psig.

Do I get an "A" = huh huh huh?

[Ron Meier]

I believe the Haynes manual is the max output of the fuel pump.

[914turbo]

I'd say you get an A+! I found the fuel pump output in the Clymer manual. It's 1.5 qts per 30 sec. (45 gal/hr) and since gas is 6 lbs/gal, then output is 270 lbs/hr. or 67.5 lbs/hr per injector.

I talked to Bob Tomlinson (author of the "Turbomania" book)yesterday, and he'd never heard of a Crown Mfg. turbo kit for 914's that used stock FI and didn't realize they even existed. The ones he remembered seeing used a "pull through" carb arrangement. He said the stock FI wouldn't provide enough fuel for a turbo under boost. Guess I'll have to prove him wrong.

Thanks to everybody for the help!

Rob

[bander]

Have you considered a Safegaurd knock sensing retard unit?
Thoughts?

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGN0007&cartid=

[914turbo]

Actually the car already has one. I just need to verify that it works. The unit I have is called a Track II by J & S Electronics (the same folks who make the Safeguard unit). It allows for dashboard adjustment of both static timing and boost retard. The Trac II was the very first product made by J&S back in the early 80's.

Thanks for the reply!

[lews930]

hey Rob ,I'd like to see your car some time if you don't mind. I live
In New Port Richey.

lewis

lews930@aol.com