Is this car known by ???

[Bruce Allert]

Anyone know this car? or about it. I 'm looking to get into a V8 conversion and this one is looking quite nice.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2403157793&category=6430
bruce

[hardflex]

I like the idea of the lightweight aluminum v8 in there. The car does look nice. Good luck if you bid.

[John2kx]

Bruce,

From the pics and description, it looks like a good canidate.......but that would depend on where the bidding stops. At the current $4500, it is a excellent deal IMHO.

Some things to consider:

-The 220 hp engine might not be enough power for you. I'm running about 400hp and would like another 75-100. If your not satisfied with the 215 buick, you'll spend mega $$$$ to tweak.....or perhaps replace with a 327/350. I'd check with Renegade and see if the adaptor plate used with the buick is interchangable with a small block chevy as well as flywheel, clutch, starter, etc.

-The description on body/paint "sounds" attractive and a very expensive part of restoration that appears to be complete, but for $3000 I would not expect to see black trunks and a combination of black and red paint on bottom of rear trunk and hinges. Guess you'd have to view this in person and decide if you are happy with this part of car. If not, figure another $2000 or so for repaint.

-Cooling system is not Renegade's and appears to be home brew. Nothing wrong with that if it works. Most guys won't spend the $1100 for a RH twin fan custom radiator and shroud with proven track record. This is a major part of a V8 conversion that can either make it fun or a PITA to own.

-5 lug upgrade, front suspension and Fuchs are high dollar items and sweeten the pot. No mention though on what was done to rear brakes, ie drilled stock rotors, 911 pieces (no parking brake), etc.

-Looks like some $$$$ needs to be spent on interior (seats, dash pad.......can't comment on carpet or door panels from pics). The NASCAR mirror would have go if mine. Tach is sitting at 2100 rpm in one pic.......wonder if it works? Needs back pad repaired/replaced. The ad also mentioned it needs seals. In my book, this all adds up to about $3000 to return to like new condition.

As mentioned above, it does look like a excellent canidate. Hopefully, you can see the car before placing a serious bid.

John

[Bruce Allert]

Thanks John, I didn't consider alot of what you mentioned. I found multiple adapter plates for sale on Ebay also. One for a Kennedy and the other is one done by a machinist
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2403444329&category=33620
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2403435491&category=6770
One of them says the conversion can be done for $1200. I have a question in to him regarding this statement.
Thanks for your input... I need all I can get for this adventure!
bruce

[John2kx]

Bruce,

I saw the items you mentioned on ebay and would caution using parts from anyone other than KEP or Renegade. These folks have been in business for quite some time and will back their products. Saving a few dollars up front is always a key issue with guys like us but give careful consideration in what your really buying as well as the experience/track record of fabricator or company.

The $1200 price quoted on ebay is a bit misleading in providing a "complete" conversion kit unless it includes clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, motor mount (beam), water pump, brackets and many other items included from RH for about $2000. Even at that, $1200-$2000 will not get you everything needed. The $2000 RH kit will get your engine installed but you'll still need a cooling system, starter, exhaust, gauges, rear springs, hoses etc.

If your going to build a conversion from scratch, you'll more than likely need some customer support. RH is second to none in this area. RH can provide you with a list of buying conversion kit in various forms from the bare basics to complete (gages, a/c-heater, exhaust, wiring harness) If memory serves me right, this can vary from $1800-$5000 depending on how close to "one stop shopping" you want to do.

Back to used conversions, the attached may look expensive but this was a good deal (considering what I've spent on mine to date) and appears to have been done right.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6430&item=2400304811&rd=1

John

[anthony]

I wonder how he smogged that '75 in CA?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

-The 220 hp engine might not be enough power for you. I'm running about 400hp and would like another 75-100.

LOL!!! Get used to that, John. You could have 500--and you'd still want another 75-100. At least, you would after a few months. I know people who have gotten to about 450 HP (not in Porsches) by steps of "75-100 HP more", and they finally realized that they were never really going to have "enough" power. I think you'll find that the 215 will move the car sufficiently well to get into trouble.

I wonder how he smogged that '75 in CA?

Remember that SBC smog requirements are not the same as aircooled VW smog requirements. Different equipment is required (it's in The Book), and the PPM smog targets seem to be easier to meet with more cylinders than with fewer. (More stuff coming out, ya see...) Note that V8s ran carbs until, what, the mid-80s?

Besides, the guy said he was a professional mechanic. I wonder if he ran a smog check station? If not, I bet he had a friend or two who did...

--DD

[mike mueller]

John....I'll have to disagree with you....a SBC conversion can be done for $1200 if you are willing to shop around, fabricate and do 99% of the work yourself....


Notice he is talking about the GRM 2003 challange...most of the cars have salvaged or used parts...the first SBC 914 I ever rode in had a $300 Chevy 350 right from the wreckers...no rebuild or anything and the car was still a blast to drive.

This is not for your average person to undertake of course and this is a case of people that should do thier homework (like you did) before purchasing an adaptor plate and getting in over thier head........

I will agree that he makes it sound like anyone could pull off a conversion for 1200....and that is not true since not everyone has the skill or tools to make it happen.

[John2kx]

Mike,

You have a point.........one could do all the work himself and get a v8 installed in the 914 in the $1200 range but my comment aimed at the ebay ad that claimed a "complete" kit which could be purchased from someone else in this price range. I hardly think this is possible.

On another note, I checked out about 6 or so junkyard engines before diving into my project. What I saw seemed like a gamble. The junkyards were willing to give a 30 day guarantee (for 300-900 dollar engines) but even at that, I felt a bit nervous in the lack of engine history available with what I saw. Besides, my project would not to be completed in record breaking time........I would not have it up and running in the "30 day window" to take advantage of any type of warranty. My other concern was getting enough power to start with "and" having the power come on in the right rpm range (to allow the 901 to survive). In other words, I felt this approach was a real gamble with respect to power curve/dependablity and decided to have a engine built by someone who knows the issues with a v8 coupled to a 901. This did cost me more up front but at least I started with all new parts, know what I have and know it was built with the 901 in mind.

Dave,

Your comments did hit home with me and I agree totally. When will enough be enough? I've never owned a car with the power to weight ratio of a 914/V8 and like anything else high performance related, after you learn to control it, your ready for more.

My only other comment is that of horsepower ratings. A few freinds of mine (along with myself) have spent some time at the dyno shop lately. The numbers we so easily throw out there (200, 300, 400 horsepower) almost seem meaningless after a while if one doesn't really understand how these figures are obtained. I've taken a second look at rear wheel horsepower the past month or so and really wonder what these numbers mean when we compare a stock 914 2.0L (80-90hp) vs. what one sees advertised for example the 215 cu. in. Buick Bruce found. Where these numbers come from (flywheel or rear wheel) does make a difference.

I've seen a stock '02 Mustang GT with 260hp (rear wheel) go through a Saleen supercharger transplant which was supposed to add 100 hp turn about 310 rear wheel dyno horsepower. Timing was really conservative on this setup as well as a really lean fuel mixture...........corrections to both should optimize his setup. With all his upgrades, he should have had 380-390 flywheel hp and according to the dyno shop owner, (.8 x 390) he should have about 312 rear wheel hp. In this case, the owner got what he paid for.

My "advertised" 400hp v8 turned 315 rear wheel "dyno" horsepower. Fuel mixture was really rich and timing was not optimized. Tweaking these two areas should get me more power.
(400 x .8 = 320)

I would not be surprised if the the Buick 215 cu. in. delivered a maximum 160-180 rear wheel horse power (vs. the 220 hp claim) and something to consider Bruce if your wanting rocket ship performance.

A late model Chevelle featured on Horsepower TV last weekend was on the dyno with a fresh 327 or 350 v8. With optimized timing, and new carb. jetted correctly, it only netted 170 hp. Kind of makes you wonder about all those 300-400 hp claims people seem to throw about with respect to small block v8's.

Well, enough of my rambling.

John

[bernbomb914]

There's an outfit in San Diego that Supercharges the land rover which has a the same basic engine. That could be an option to make more power if needed. That engine should make more torque than a porsche 6 with the same HP.

Bernie

[Biggy72]

one of my buddies has a 383 stroker in his truck and the shop that built it said he's puttin out 400 hp. I believe it though, compaired to my truck with a fresh 350 with a high rise intake, holly 650 cfm carb and headers, he smokes me.... the 383 is the way I'd go if I were to put something that big into one of these little cars.