Differences between 86 and 83 944

[Roastin944]

Hi,
I know the main differences between the 2, like the complete change in the interior, power steering, etc.. What are the main differences between the 2, like things that are better or worse in one than the other. Ive heard things about the internals of the engine too? Which car is considered more reliable and easier to maintain? Thanks

John

[Tex]

from what ive heard, the rule is: the newer the porsche, the better its reliability.

i believe they upped the compression for more hp, not sure.

[gearhead290]

The 86 has a engine code of M44/07 and the 83's engine code is M44/02. But I have no clue what all the difference is between the two engine codes. Both have 150hp@5500 RPM. Both have a stroke of 78.9mm and a bore of 100mm. Both have a compression ratio of 9.5:1 and a DME fuel system. I found this info at http://www.dimmer.net/hosted/944central/about/ just in case you're wanting to read more on it.

[AaronM]

From what I understand, the electrical bits of the newer interiors tend to cause fewer problems.

[1.2gees]

Powersteering has not been changed from the "1982" model 944s to the last 968 in 95.

An 86 model has larger oil galleries, more oil capacity, different routing for the fuel lines, etc. There's too many differences to list, but they are all minor in the grand sceme of things, aside from the interior change.
Ahmet

[88_944]

Here some good stuff!

924S:
944 drive train in 924 body, lighter, more aerodynamic and faster than a regular 944. The 88 models had a "sport" option available - these cars make excellent autocrossers and are worth more.

1981-1985.5 944:
Introduced in the US as a 1983 model. These "early" cars are lighter than the later cars. The interior is a transplant from the 924.

1985.5-88 944
Upgraded "A" arms, new interior. The steering wheel was also moved slightly to give more leg clearance.

1989 944:
Larger 2.7 liter engine for the last year for the standard 944.

1986-88 944 Turbo:
87+ had dual air bags, ABS optional.

1988-89 944 TurboS:
The TurboS engine is based on the normal Turbo engine. It’s equipped with a

modified turbo with redesigned vanes. The DME computer has different fuel/ignition/boost mapping to give higher boost over the entire RPM range compared to the normal Turbo. The exhaust valves were also increased in diameter by 1/100th mm near the valve guide for better running at full load.

Water hose, pipe, mounts and turbo water pump were all changed due to the reinforcements of the front end. The clutch had changes in springs and the friction liner is cemented and riveted to handle the extra power. Front and rear shocks are stiffer, the brakes are from the 928 S-4. Larger anti-roll bars and torsion bars. The transmission has a limited slip and an oil cooler.

1st and 2nd gears were hardness blasted for increased strength. "S" coil springs are also harder and tempered to allow for wheel clearance. It also had harder rubber suspension bushings all around. Dual airbags and ABS were standard.

1986.5-89 944S:
16 valve head gives more power. Dual airbags standard for all years. ABS optional.

1989.5-92 944S2:
Larger (3.0 liter) 16 valve engine, more torque at low RPM.

1989-92 944S2 Cabriolet:
Convertible version of S2.

1993-95 968:
6 speed, revised body style, variable valve timing.

1993-94 968 Cabriolet:
Convertible version of 968.

1989 and later all models come with dual airbags standard.

[carsontc]

lots of different engine electricals, AFM, TPS, DME, fans, starter, alternator, harnesses,etc.

lots of differences underneath too...front & rear suspension, speedo sensor, etc. (but I don't think wheel offsets changed had changed yet)

[carsontc]

musta slipped that in as I was putting in my .02....much better job too

[1.2gees]

There is a whole lot more than the listed, not only for the early/late but also for the turbo->turbo S.
Ahmet

[88_944]

Hey, I just notice that the 1989 944 had a Displacement of 2688 cc and the HP of 162 @ 5800 RPMs. But the 89 944S had a Disp of 2688 CC 188 @ 6000 RPMs. But a bigger engine was made, The 89 S2 Disp. of 3000 cc HP is 208 @ 5800 RPMs. That's almost to a stock 86 944 Turbo with 217 HP.

The 90 & 91 S2 had Disp. of 3000 cc with 208 hp @ 5800 RPMs also.

If you don't have an 89 we all have a Disp of 2479 cc. I want 3000 cc!!

[CJFusco]

Let's not forget that the earlier the car, the lighter it is!

"from what ive heard, the rule is: the newer the porsche, the better its reliability. "

Yes and no; within the same model, perhaps, but I would say a 911SC is MUCH more reliable than, say, a 924 Turbo, and a 1983 944 is most likely more reliable than a 1984 928S... and the concensus seems to be that the Carrera 3.2 is a whole hell of a lot more reliable than the 964.

"Powersteering has not been changed from the "1982" model 944s to the last 968 in 95. "

Ummm my 944 was built in May 1983 (coming up on its 20th birthday!!) and it has no power steering.

[Tex]

imagine a 951 engine in a 924s, that would be pretty fast.

[CJFusco]

"imagine a 951 engine in a 924s, that would be pretty fast."

Considering all the add-ons that you would need in order for a 951 engine to run in a 924S, I don't think it would be that much faster than a stock 951. Porsche included every part on the 951 for a reason...

[Nabeel]

Originally posted by 88_944
Hey, I just notice that the 1989 944 had a Displacement of 2688 cc and the HP of 162 @ 5800 RPMs. But the 89 944S had a Disp of 2688 CC 188 @ 6000 RPMs. But a bigger engine was made, The 89 S2 Disp. of 3000 cc HP is 208 @ 5800 RPMs. That's almost to a stock 86 944 Turbo with 217 HP.

The 90 & 91 S2 had Disp. of 3000 cc with 208 hp @ 5800 RPMs also.

If you don't have an 89 we all have a Disp of 2479 cc. I want 3000 cc!!

Do you mean '88 944S? There was no '89 944S .

Also, in regard to your previous post:

- No 944S cars had airbags
- There is no 1981 944
- The 968 debuted for the '92 model year
- The '89 Turbo is not really a 951 'S'. Same engine, but teh Turbo S was only a limited edition '88 model.
- Dual airbags were standard in all cars only in the USA after 1989.
-

[Nabeel]

Originally posted by CJFusco
"Powersteering has not been changed from the "1982" model 944s to the last 968 in 95. "

Ummm my 944 was built in May 1983 (coming up on its 20th birthday!!) and it has no power steering.

It was optional '82-'83. The system remained the same I guess all those years.

[CJFusco]

I should have known better than to question Ahmet

[thamlin000]

I know I've had this discussion before with someone, but I am not convinced that powersteering was a factory option on 82-83 944s. My original sales brochures from 1983 don't list powersteering as an option. I believe 1984+ models came with it standard.

Could p/s have been a dealer installed option?

[88_944]

Originally posted by Nabeel
Do you mean '88 944S? There was no '89 944S .

Also, in regard to your previous post:

- No 944S cars had airbags

"944S: First introduced as a 1987 model. 2.5liter DOHC 4 cyl with 16v head, 188hp, DME injection, self-diagnosis; "16 Ventiler" on front of door guards. Options: air bags, sport suspension, ABS.

1988: Engine output increased to 158hp via higher compression, central locking and upgraded F/R antisway bars std.
1988 944S now includes oil level warning, air bags as standard equipment.

Link- http://www.cantonia.com/milestones.html

Originally posted by Nabeel
- There is no 1981 944

Only 43 1981 944 was made. Here's one.

Link- #10 1981 Porsche 944 GT-LM (Le Mans racer)
http://www.ibiblio.org/tkan/audi/auto-misc/auto-misc2.html

Originally posted by Nabeel - The 968 debuted for the '92 model year

"1992 - 1995: Porsche introduces what was originally going to be refered to as the series 3 (or 944 S3) but later introduced under the factory model designation 968."

Link- http://www.cantonia.com/milestones.html

Originally posted by Nabeel - The '89 Turbo is not really a 951 'S'. Same engine, but teh Turbo S was only a limited edition '88 model.

The Production for 944 Turbo "S"

Year - Made - Imported to U.S.A
1988 - 1006 - 399
1989 - 1201 - 700

[1.2gees]

Since we're picking the details, the pictured car appears to be a 924 Carrera GTR (Roughly a modified type 937). There were no 944s sold in the model year 1981. The GTP car you speak of is a 924 GTR (of the 19), w/the 2.5 liter Porsche engine, hence the GTP, which stands for prototype.

For 1989 all 944 turbos were uprated to previous year's "turbo S" specifications. There is indeed no 1989 (or later) 944 turbo S. Any source claiming otherwise is incorrect.

And I wasn't going to get into it but powersteering is as follows:

1983: optional in all markets.

1984: optional in europe, included w/cars that had the automatic transaxle option, and standard in the US.

1985: standard for all models.
Ahmet

[1.2gees]

I can't sleep so I'll pick this apart some more...

There were (a handfull of) 944s produced in 1981, but not sold as 81 model year cars. The GTP should not be included in the "43" figure as it had a modified 937 chasis, and indeed it was a prototype. To back my statements up, I will quote the first 944 chasis #, "ZZZ94ZCN400001", for the 1982 year. This is a Europe/ROW # as the cars were not officially sold in the US.

Porsche introduced the 968 in 91 but started selling them as 92 models, but you already knew that...

To clarify the 1988 944 turbo S vs. 1989 and later turbo issue, as far as the factory is concerned the only cars labeled/sold or recognized as 944 turbo S' were the special batch of 88 model year turbos. Later models got some of the features of the turbo S cars as standard, most notably the k26/8 turbocharger, but the changes are far from being limited to this. I'll save that for another day...
Ahmet