Hi there, first post and first question to 944 owners...

[Brando]

Yes, i just bought this 944 (similar situation to another person who was looking at a 1983 for $2000). The engine was well cared for and has a new trans.

Basically, i'm trying to find out if this is a common problem. I'm doing my first oil change and it appears when the previous owner took it to his local import auto shop for oil changes, they've overtightened it. My haynes manual says it's 44 ft/lbs torque on the oil drain plug, but they've got to have it at least 3 times that, because even with a huge breaker bar, the thing's not loosening. And i'm not going to pay another $40 to take it to grease monkey and have them pull the same thing.

I'm thinking of using my impact wrench (usually used for taking off my lugs), but i fear it's too much torque and might crack the oil sump... any suggestions?

[gearhead290]

ya gotta do what ya gotta do. And then don't tighten it that far down.

I'm thinking of using my impact wrench (usually used for taking off my lugs)

ummm...lugs should be torqued to 96 ft/lbs. DO NOT USE AN IMPACT!!!

[TheCooler]

Penetrating oil?

[Brando]

Originally posted by gearhead290
ya gotta do what ya gotta do. And then don't tighten it that far down.

ummm...lugs should be torqued to 96 ft/lbs. DO NOT USE AN IMPACT!!!

In about 5 minutes that oil drain plug is going to be met with formula 404/orange cleaner and a big-ass breaker bar.

PS: I always use a torque wrench when i put things back on

[Scott R]

Always use an impact on lugs, then the torque wrench. Unless you're into a lot of wrenching.

About the oil plug, I hope it's not cross threaded, but you can use your impact gun, start at setting #1 and work you're way up.

[Roger Hall]

I had the same problem with my drain plug. I ended up chewing the head up and I let the shop replace it. I think it has to do with the heat and the different types of metal. Since the pan in aluminum and the plug is steel they have a tendency to bind. I think Porsche realized this and tried to solve it with a copper sealing ring. I now use a very large breaker bar to remove the plug, and I only tighten it enough so it doesn't leak.

[Brando]

Brando + 2ft Breaker Bar: 1
Oil Drain Plug: 0

[todwic]

Originally posted by Brando
Brando + 2ft Breaker Bar: 1
Oil Drain Plug: 0

I like your style.

[TSNAPCRACKLEPOP]

where did you find such a small breaker bar? why bother? if 2 feet doesn't do it, you spend a lot of time looking for the six footer(glavanized fencepost) with the belly pad on it, and your'e storing a tool you can't use a lot.

Friends can't really help much on a 2 footer, but a steel milk crate to stand on helps with the mechanical advantage of a 6 footer too, since latecomers are more effective jumping on the end of the bar from some height.
a 2 footer to loosen a bolt is nothing, but a 6 footer demands a bbq and beer.
a six footer rarely requires lighting up the gas wrench, so you save $$$$. this savings can be used to light the bbq.

then, theres the fear instilled in the rest of the car when it sees the lengths (sic) to which you are willing to go if necessary. fear factor also bleeds over to the old truck, other cars, motorcycles, etc. my car cooperates just knowing the length of my tool. LOL

women like a big bar cause they know when you use it you are always successful, then after the big snap and smile, they go get refreshments and tell their mothers you used the big breaker bar on it.

my 6 footer is rusty, bent, and multi colored, and i have a larger one (old swingset leg)that fits over it for when company arrives.

longer breaker bars can also hold ALL your duct tape backstock in an organized fashion.

custom bars can be fabricated for special tools by hammering the pipe to make the opening oval to accept the handle. hacksaw marks along the wrench arm, when properly aligned with the end of the bar, can approximate torque values, or horsepower as the application may demand.

the right tool for the job!!

dr tom

[1.2gees]

I don't mean to offend, but I don't understand how you're not strong enough to take a plug out of an aluminum oil pan, with a 2 foot breaker bar!

I would, tap the plug with a hammer lightly a few times. Try again, if that doesn't work, apply a bit of heat to the plug area. I'm assuming your car's an early model without the oil level sender in the vicinity, if this is the case, heating becomes even more attractive. If you work fast, and don't apply heat directly to the plug, it should let go. This would take care of any tread lock if there is some (cause you never know what the previous owner did!).

Good luck.
Ahmet

[interglossa]

Some might think it's a bit hokey, but i replaced mine with the valve-type drain plug that performance products sells. Never has to be removed. So way less headaches. Never had a problem with it and it's a pretty good idea.

[overkill]

Originally posted by 1.2gees
I don't mean to offend, but I don't understand how you're not strong enough to take a plug out of an aluminum oil pan, with a 2 foot breaker bar!

HA HA HA, sorry. Dude, use the breaker bar only!!! Work the bolt in BOTH directions until you atleast get it to move. Once it moves then work it back and forth the clean out the threads a bit. One you do that then take her off. IMPACT WRENCH to remove the oil drain plug? Hmm, you going through impact wrench withdrawl or something? OH shizz I'm going to bed. Joking big guy. Nothing you do can top my boiling of the oil cooler housing, BAH HA HA!!!

[Brando]

Originally posted by 1.2gees
I don't mean to offend, but I don't understand how you're not strong enough to take a plug out of an aluminum oil pan, with a 2 foot breaker bar!

T'was not the issue at all. As i said earlier, the previous shop the owner took the car to had tightened it to over 120 ft/lbs torque. Spec is 44/45 ft/lbs. I couldn't get enough leverage on a standard length (about 3.5 to 5 inches). So, i jacked the car up, crawled underneath and whipped out the medium sized breaker bar. Viola, just a tap with my palm at the end and i hear the victorious snap of my oil drain plug coming loose.

Also, i have this really, really nice copper/brass oil drain valve, which i'll have to install in another 3k miles

[gearhead290]

Originally posted by Scott R
Always use an impact on lugs, then the torque wrench. Unless you're into a lot of wrenching.

ahhhhh...wouldn't that be bad??? Wouldn't using an impact on them make all of your lugs a different torque therefore allowing your rotors to warp? Also, wouldn't that allow your lugs to work themselves loose?

BTW...carefull with Tuffy's guys. My buddy just got his MX6 realigned (it was a bit off when we put his GC's and Tokicos on it) and they had to install a camber kit, but they didn't tighten the lugs far enough and he about lost his front wheel. When we took it to a shop to have the brake pads changed(he needed them done on a day I couldn't help him) there was also a wabba wabba and they said that 19 of his lugs were loose.

[TheCooler]

Mine was on realll friggin tight and after like 20 mins of work i got it off with a 6 inch ratchet. ...breakerbars ..who needs um. This summer im going to work on trying to rip a phonebook in half.

[MrPants]

Originally posted by TheCooler
This summer im going to work on trying to rip a phonebook in half.

i just laughed and spit corned beef hash all over the moniter.

[MrPants]

Originally posted by gearhead290
ahhhhh...wouldn't that be bad??? Wouldn't using an impact on them make all of your lugs a different torque therefore allowing your rotors to warp? Also, wouldn't that allow your lugs to work themselves loose?

aside from their general viscinity, how are the lug nuts related to the rotors?

[carsontc]

cousins

[gearhead290]

Originally posted by yo mama
aside from their general viscinity, how are the lug nuts related to the rotors?

Not trying to sound like a smart @$$ (ok, so I am) but they're as related as tires and wheels. If you drive for a long ways on a flat tire it damages the wheel, same goes for rotors. Your wheels studs are hooked into your rotors and if they aren't all at the same torque they will cause the rotor to be pulled out at certain points and not at others. Thus causing it to become wavy which will cause it to warp your rotors.

[1.2gees]

Warping rotors by overtightenning lug nuts is an issue on most Hondas, however not the case on Porsches.

Porsches, for the most part use floating rotors, with a locator screw. Some have a hub, that's completely seperate, and rotors mounted inboard (front of most 944s). Porsche uses studs that are sunk into a hub, seperate from the rotor (rear of most 944s). In any case warping the rotors by overtightenning the lug nuts is not an issue.

I haven't "torqued" my lug nuts in a long time. I believe what Scott was saying is that if you're used to working on cars, you probably have a good idea of what's an acceptable amount of torque, without having to measure it. If you sit there with your impact wrench adjusted to max torque, and blast away for 5 min on your lug nuts, they're not going to be happy.
Ahmet