"Look at how much they've stuck to racing heritage. Look at the 996, is that truly still a sports car??"

Have you looked at the results of the Rolex 24 HR this past Febuary? I think the 996 did alright.

"You guys have probably the most closed mind approach when it comes to cars. Lets take the 944NA for example. Can you squeeze any more power out of the engine??? I mean, seriously, I cant believe theres such an engine like the 944NA which is so mod unfriendly. For under $1000, I can get my BMW to gain at LEAST 20 rwhp."

Geee, a twenty year old car pumping 150+HP out of a 2.5lt inline 4
8 valve, what do you expect to extract from that?

dont pretend to know me and tell me im not a true car guy. yes my 944 was abused before i got it, and i was not *****ing about the $$ i sank into it to restore it. i was pointing out that not all german cars hold up as well an one might imply. i dont ***** about how much cash i have in my car. if i cared i wouldnt be prepared to drop almost 15k into a 2k car. but what i want makes the car better and would be dominant in anything i want to do with it.

yes the cayenne is faster than jap cars, but it costs a buttload more too. and i dont want to be doing any speed in any SUV, its not my idea of fun. and its ugly is person too.

yup, new NSXs are high 80s low 90s. sure an M3 would fare very well against one too. but your comparison is exactly what ive been doing all along, so ill do ya one better. you buy your M3, ill buy an 87 RX-7 turbo and ill fit it with all the aftermarket goodies i feel. big turbo, intercooler, standalone ECU and full bad boy coilovers. ill even throw on a set of big wheels and a wing just for you. that RX-7 would hand an M3, new or old, it ass and im not just talking about the straights either. but ill only have about 20k invested in the car, including the cost of the car.

torque is for burouts. sure it helps to have torque but horsepower wins races.

the type-r is a cool car. its pretty much strung out to its limits from the factory so theres no more room for extra power without big amounts of $$ sunk into it. but its an excellent handling car. they rock out on the auto-x where their suspensions can really shine.

and im not worried about straight line. sure its nice to drag race and beat a few people on the streets, but thats boring. corners are where its at. my car will see every single supspension mod i can put on it to raise its cornering limits. the extra power is just to take me through the corners faster.

honda makes damn good engines. back in the turbo days of F1 Honda was untouchable. not even the great ferrari could touch them.

B]Why is it that most of the younger generation are well aware of the capabilities of japanese cars? I'm sure Z-man knows what an Mr2 is capable of. Geo at rennlist is well aware of the nissan lineup. Go out, test drive the new evo 8 and then go over to porsche and try and find a boxster in the same price range that can perform as well. Im done, my 2 cents.[/B]


BTW, what does "price" have to do with it? I guess if I was a cheap bastard I would consider a Subaru Legacy, or a Supra. Saving a buck should not influence your purchasing. I hope to god the Boxter is more, becuase in the end you get what you pay for. If you want cheap plastic crap, then get the Suby or the Toyota. If you enjoy the feal of rat leather, and plastic coated dash boards, then I say enjoy it.

It's not for me, I may be "elitist" but I enjoy all of my fine European automobiles, when I sit in an WRX it feals and looks "cheap" to me, from the tiny little seats to the vague steering.




yup, new NSXs are high 80s low 90s. sure an M3 would fare very well against one too. but your comparison is exactly what ive been doing all along, so ill do ya one better. you buy your M3, ill buy an 87 RX-7 turbo and ill fit it with all the aftermarket goodies i feel. big turbo, intercooler, standalone ECU and full bad boy coilovers. ill even throw on a set of big wheels and a wing just for you. that RX-7 would hand an M3, new or old, it ass and im not just talking about the straights either. but ill only have about 20k invested in the car, including the cost of the car.


Talk to you in 60K when those APEX seals go on your rotary, and don't kid yourself if you think they wont.

"20k invested in the car, including the cost of the car" what's that, like $3,000? Sorry, having too much fun with this one. '95 M3-$15,000 plus $3,000 supercharger set up and $2,000 in suspension/tires etc. would be good competition and a lot nicer quality car, not to mention a nicer and more comfortable daily driver or grocery getter.

"torque is for burouts. sure it helps to have torque but horsepower wins races"

Bull! Maybe on a long high speed track! If you have a short track w/ some tight turns good luck w/o tq.

a rotary is the best example i can think of to despute the torque thing. rotaries are known for their complete and total lack of torque, but they are phenomenal on a road course. you can make like 800hp with a turbo rotary but peak out at about 400ft-lbs. but that motor in an RX7 will rock. and if youve ever seen a highly worked rx7 come out of the hole at a drag strip youd know what i was talking about. you need some torque, yes. but torque is not more important than good old horsepower. if you have a good enough suspension to keep your speed up through corners then you dont need huge amounts of torque.

yup you are definatley an elitist.

price has a lot to do with it. why WASTE money on a high breed euro car when you can go just as fast and be perfectly comfortable for less money? seems pointless to spend money when you dont have to. and i remember when road and track magazine got a boxter long term car. every month was a review on why they had to take it back to the dealer to get it fixed. it was nothing big, just little buttons failing and crap like that. sounds like a quality well built car to me. i rather have a supra turbo which is right on par with higher cost euro cars as far as quality goes.

and blown apex seals at 60k? you have no idea about rotaries do you? my 87 T2 had 127k when i got it and it had just blown its firsyt motor, and the only reason it blew was because the owner took it to a shop that didnt know how to work on it. ive seen more miles than that on rx7s, even 3rd gens twin turbos, the most picky of them all. ill kid myself all day long because its true. i actualy know what im talking about when it comes to rotaries.

in the end id rather have a fast car that i didnt have to worry about, and euro sports cars just cant do that.

ok then ill use my personal car as an example. i paid 250 bucks for my 87 T2 rx7. add about 5k for the turbo setup and fuel. 1500 for the haltech ECU, 1500 for all the coilovers, and 1k for the rest of the suspension. 1500 for the wheels and tires. 1k for the turbo-back exhaust. 2 grand for paint and gauges and im set. ill tear up an M3 with that. and im perfectly happy riding in a car like that. stiff suspension doesnt bother me, nor does a loud exhaust. and if it did, thats why i have a beater.

800HP Are you high? Seriously, are you high? It's a 2 litre engine, with a concave torque curve. Not to mention that there is no engine on earth that suffers from turbo lag like the rotary.

Hell you would have to reengineer the entire car for 300HP, the gearbox would never take it.

The only way an RX7 would every tear up an M3 would be if the M3 didn't even show up for the race. You are seriously dilusional.

oh and about WRXs. if you feel that they are such crap ass cars, i got some friends in CO that would be more than happy to run you.

Sure, no problem. If you really want me to make fools out of them, I'll take my S4 to the track and we can see who has the faster car.

Would you like me to tell you which car has the higher torque and HP in that race? Or do I even need to bother?

i dont usualy say this to people on the internet, but you are a moron. you have no clue what you are saying. first off rotaries are very capable of spooling massive turbos. there is a guy here in town that runs a T-78. if you dont know what that is, its about as big as your head.....prolly bigger. he sees full boost at 3500-4250. rotaries have the strongest exhaust pulses of any engine. the port design alows exhaust to flow straight out of the engine. this allows for very fast very hot exhaust, two things that directly affect spool up.
second off, yes rotaries can make lots of power. i recall one car in japan, the Scoot 3rd gen, as making 741 to the tires off 2bar of boost. download the video off Kazaa if you dont believe me.
third, a stock 2nd gen gear box can hold well over 400hp, all day long. end of story. if you wannna talk about imports, dont do it with the RX-7, you obviosly dont know what youre talking about.

Hmm...........You arent the most intelligent of people are you?

The engine in an RX-7 is 1.3 liters not 2. There IS a 2 liter rotary, but not available in any car stateside.

"Concave torque curve":confused: Just curious how far you dug up your ass to find that one. I ask because i work for a shop that happens to have an in ground chassis dyno and produces 600+ hp cars on a weekly basis. Our "shop" car being a 1300rwhp 10.5 inch tire outlaw car

As far as the horrible turbo lag you mention rotaries suffering from..... My old 90 TII spooled a .81 a/r hotsided 60-1 to 15psi @ 3000 RPM. Dont even begin to tell me that the engine in your 951 will do that.........i can prove it wont.

Reengineer the entire car for 300hp.............apparently there are a LOT of RX-7 owners that need to be informed that their entire cars need to be reengineered. Mine was making far more than 300hp on a STOCK unported motor, through a STOCK drivetrain.

I can cite NUMEROUS 600+ rwhp RX-7s still running STOCK gearbox's etc if youd like me to. 9 second cars with stock drivetrains.

As far as not being able to touch an M3..............i could prolly get a few local M3 owners to post their thoughts on what the rear end of my WRX looks like at speed. And the wrx isnt as fast as the last RX-7 i built.

When you can develop an informed, rational, coherent response; that doesnt involve you spewing mindless bull***** and theories of how you THINK or BELIEVE things to work........feel free to post it. SmileWavy

Ok, once again post the dyno not the numbers, I don't even remotely trust those numbers. Since you have an "in shop" dyno it should be no problem for you to post a 600+ hp 87 T2 RX7. For that matter I would also like to see this mythical fire breathing 800HP RX7 mentioned before.

9 second cars, no way. Sorry not gonna buy that one either, again post the slip and prove it.

And yes the stock torque curve on the 2l rotary is concave, thats from the factories numbers not mine. I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt that you had the 2l engine, since the 1.3 12b could never make that kind of power. And yes I also know many RX7 owners from the 80's that suffered gear box damage running the stock configuration, don't pretend that it does not happen.

As for your WRX, I don't know what weightless dimension you exist in, but they get stomped on all the time at my local track.

So post it, and I will concede, until then it's just mindless dribble, enjoy your asian fantasy. Maybe if you're extra good the tooth feary will bring you a "Johnny Tran, Fast and The Furious" action figure.

Ahhhh, back in Japan....Where everything is over 400HP. The problem is you can dream it I can live it. I think you should come back in a month after bolting on all these mythical mods and POST THE DYNO sheet.

Seriously, just go out tomorrow and order the stuff, bolt it on and prove me wrong. Should be no problem right? Just overnight parts from Japan.



I swear to god my day is boring without this, I mean I would have nothing to to otherwise, really.

OUCH Scott R. Daddy come to shut ya down did he? And please Scott, stop insulting RX7s, because you really don't know of what you speak. However, I do know a bit about your "awesome" S4. hmmm...where should I begin on how those suck? I'll just refer to dano's old S4. He had the car for roughly a year, and had a pretty fast one at that. He had spent TONS of money on mods and he was capable of going to the strip and taking out Vipers. Just one problem, it was broken MORE than MY 944 (pretty sad isn't it). He had the car for a little over a year, blew out 1&2 gear, then killed off both of the turbos. Then he decided to sell it and replace it with what you ask? AN FD RX7!!!! Sold the S4 for 34k, bought the RX7 for 12k and went at it. Anyways, I'll get to my point. His RX7 doesn't even have 5k in it and it will spank his old S4 not only in a straight line, but around a track. Not to mention I think that your 2 liter (AKA 20B, the 3 rotor) should be VERY VERY capable of 800+ hp. I say we bring this one up at www.RX7club.com and see what they say. Anybody registered there and willing to post it?

WTF is this about jap cars having ****hole brakes? hmmm...this one confuses me. If jap cars' brakes suck how come many of Nissan's performance cars' brakes say Brembo on them and have 4+ piston calipers??? HMMMMM...

Scott, research things before you say them.

BTW-I have seen older NSXs (91) for sale and an asking price of 20k.

Lets talk money here, a new Porsche 911 turbo costs what?? I'll guess and say about 160k. Ok, so for 160k you have a pretty fast car that can stick in a turn, we agree on this correct? NOW go buy your least favorite car, a 92 civic hatchback. We'll WAY overshoot the price and say it costs 10k. Next dump 150k into the h/b. I don't know about you guys, but I would put every cent I have on that lil h/b smoking the 911 everywhere! Ok, you might be saying this isn't fair. Lets take a new Prelude (I'm not sure if they still make them, so we'll go with an 01). You can pick one up for 20k. Guess what, that's still 140k to dump into it to make it SMOKE that 911. Yet again, I'll put all of my money on the 911 getting wasted.

Hey D993, welcome back.

How I do love fairy tales....

1300 HP rwhp car, that go with your 400+ HP 944S2T?

If your life that shallow that you really need to do this - you were proven a liar now deal with it.

AFJuvat

Yea right, so now your a rotary engine specialist huh? Say is your 944 even on the road Mr. Wizard?

My so called "father" has nothing to back his claims Gearhead, so I consider myself "un-spanked" until the proof is put on the table.

I dont have time to dig around on the internet to provide you with a bunch of articles to prove what i already know to be true.

www.rx7.com home of one of the low 9 second stock body'd, stock tranny'd RX-7's that you claim dont exist. They used to/still should have plenty of info about that car.

What the hell are you talking about when you mention a "concave" torque curve? at least use terms that exist in automotive terminology if you're going to pretend to know what you are talking about.

I am sorry for you and your "friends from the 80's" and their lack of ablity to drive a standard transmission equipped vehicle.

as far as my wrx and the "weightless dimension" that it exists in.........here is one of my earlier 1/8 mile passes at the strip across from our shop. this pass was made prior to the new turbo that is on the car now. So I'll leave it at that until youd like to prove ANY of what you claim so far..........like i said earlier "Actual facts.........not what you THINK or BELIEVE".....or what you claim to know based on what you remember from the 80's" http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/IMG_0674.JPG SmileWavy