Am I biting off more than I can chew?

[PreciousPorsche]

My precious 1987 944 got rear ended and totaled a number of years ago. But I paid to keep the wreck because everything except the chassis was/is in great condition. So I kept my eyes open for salvage cars with decent chassis but mechanical damage - ideally a car with a single point of failure - like the motor - for which I'd provide a replacement. Well, I found a salvage car with a burned motor and I do happen to have a "spare" motor on hand. Car looks great otherwise. But wow, burned engine compartments look really intimidating to the untrained eye. So can I ask if your more experienced eyes can evaluate the rough level of effort needed to clean up something like the attached photo? I already have a car with a complete and undamaged engine compartment. So can this be fixed by a direct transplant of parts or am I biting off more than I can chew? And to be clear, I am a checkbook mechanic and will pay a pro to make the swap. I just want to know if my checkbook can withstand it.

[kdjones2000]

Looks like the entire fuse box area was toasted really good.

This car will require a complete wiring transplant, in addition to the engine you already talked about.

I don't think paying someone to do this for you will be remotely cost-effective...

[7eighths]

Originally Posted by kdjones2000

This car will require a complete wiring transplant, in addition to the engine you already talked about.

I'd second that. I would expect to be replacing under dash wiring as well as everything in the engine bay (including brake booster etc).

Also not sure what being baked like that does to the metal, especially regarding paint adhesion.

[walfreyydo]

Everything from the firewall forward needs to be removed and replaced with parts from the donor car. Its going to be a big project (especially considering youll need to repaint the front of the car including the engine bay).

Basically, youll need to fully strip that engine bay, sand, primer, paint, before then starting to swap over all the stuff from the donor car.

Impossible to say if you are biting off more than you can chew because we dont know your skillset, tools, facility, etc.... But, if you have never done something like this before and dont have a lot of experience removing engines, body work, etc, then its probably going to overwhelm you. Paying someone else? I highly doubt any shop will take this on.

Im honestly not even sure if a body that is that far burned can be salvaged with sanding/paint/primer either. The body has a galvanized coating which is probably gone as well. Looks like its missing a windshield as well

[djnolan]

By the way the fire damaged car looks like a turbo, not an N/A. Was the wrecked car a turbo too? This might change the value equation...

[Monkey Wrench]

I don't think I'd too concerned about problems with the metallurgy sure it burned off some paint then rust may start on the reverse side if untreated.

i think the real clincher here is paying someone else. and also any changes mean that you may have missing parts, wire harness confusion etc.

If I tried to put myself in the position of what I would think if I were the shop mechanic,, had to quote in it Id just say my work is this much an hour, do you want me to start? giving a quite on how much labor that would take? well no , because I would definitely expect unforeseen time delay obstacles.

to someone with their own shop who can fiddle fart around and sort all that out, it is possible. but a person like that isn't charging out a shop rate.

my guess is that under the conditions outlined he may be best to sell it off to a collector who can reuse the parts and take whatever he can get and move forward to an easier project..

people who race them likely would be a lot less intimidated, heck they strip the car down to a pretty much a shell before they begin anyway..

a candidate for electric car , or V8 conversion maybe? maybe an engine with a carb so you can chuck all the overcomplicated and unnecessary electronics?

practical and possible are two different things.

[Ernie944]

Originally Posted by PreciousPorsche

My precious 1987 944 got rear ended and totaled a number of years ago. But I paid to keep the wreck because everything except the chassis was/is in great condition. So I kept my eyes open for salvage cars with decent chassis but mechanical damage - ideally a car with a single point of failure - like the motor - for which I'd provide a replacement. Well, I found a salvage car with a burned motor and I do happen to have a "spare" motor on hand. Car looks great otherwise. But wow, burned engine compartments look really intimidating to the untrained eye. So can I ask if your more experienced eyes can evaluate the rough level of effort needed to clean up something like the attached photo? I already have a car with a complete and undamaged engine compartment. So can this be fixed by a direct transplant of parts or am I biting off more than I can chew? And to be clear, I am a checkbook mechanic and will pay a pro to make the swap. I just want to know if my checkbook can withstand it.

PreciousPorsche`,,,,I,ve been around both air cool & watercool Porsches for over 40 years ,take my advices your just be throwing money down the drain trying to bring that car back to life,,,,For the money spend you could go & buy a decent 944 or 94416v.Even an S2.....Save parts on it that you think are good & sell them,,,you are welcome to take a look at my garage ,,,,Old Faitful;l an 83 early model or at Dream an 93 -968....Let us know what you decide to do & good luck

[Monkey Wrench]

here's a neat Video, this guy can put in a V8.. How much money you got ? ;-)
Thankfully watching the video is free. if you are interested he might sell you a kit. I admire his positive attitude and found his videos interesting.

You have to admire his inspiring attitude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULMHzw771DM

[Elynch924]

All I can say is yikes. More than I would want to do.

[Monkey Wrench]

I envision planting an volvo redblock engine in there, but coupling it with the porsche tranny would be a mechanical challenge. those engines really lasted and were simple to rebuild.. I think my 8 valve porsche engine only makes about 150 HP, so its pretty well the same amount of power to start with but he 944 isn't very easy to bore for new pistons or get more power from with out spending lots. The porsche doesn't have a very high redline for a sports car. the older volvo engines were overbuilt so they could really be modified quite a bit without them blowing up. I think its possible to make a porsche engine more powerful , just not for 500 bucks or so. the volvo motors did come with carbs so you can convert to carbs then with older parts from carb engine cars. thats how you can ditch the ECU completely. upgrading a 944 to carbs to ditch the electronics is hard because there were no carb manifolds.

is it actually worth the time? probably not but someone might like to. it seems like a decent start for some project like that.. the damage will look a lot less serious without that burned up engine in there. if rust isn't started up paint removal and repainting will change the look pretty fast.

buying another 944 of similar year and engine size with body damage might be a good way to geta all the parts necessary, changing things too much would definitely get electrically confusing.

my brother upgraded 3 volvos like that, ditched the ECU and went with carbs and old style distributors. he wasn't making them more powerful, just a lot easier to maintain and more simple.. his point was it increased reliability by basically dumbing things down to not needing complicated electronics to run. I think he proved his point and had some fun without spending very much at it.

maybe somethign like an audi 5 cyl would make it really go.. there is a great thread by a racer who did that.. maybe he'd want it to do another one similar, to race with. That thread also shows he's also quite an accomplished engineer with a lot of admirable skills..

I think the OP might have success finding someone to take it over for a similar type of race related project. I didn't get the feeling he was in for that much of a challenge, not so many would want that level of involvement. swapping parts from another car of the same year that has all he needs might be not be so bad. then he's not reinventing stuff.

[TibetanT]

Precious Porsche:

First and foremost, "Yes" this is more than you can ever imagine taking on!
Now, with that said, let me ask you a question...How deep are your pockets?
IF, you say DEEP and do not care about expense, THEN, go for it and do a write up on every detail. Why? Because it will be a published article in Porsche Club of America's
Panorama.

Second, and very important since I have done my share of restoring 944 cars, what does the firewall on the inside cabin look like?
Is there fire damage there?

The reason I ask is, from the looks of this picture the Dash is burnt which means there is a lot of wiring which also was damaged in the process. IF, this is the case, THEN, do not bother with trying to restore as Ernie944 above has mentioned. I could sell you my 1987 944S for a lot less then this entire project will end up costing, period!

Basically, in a nutshell, there are too many "gotchas" that will be waiting for you with this restore. Therefore, as mentioned, unless you have access to deep pocket money this project will bankrupt you.

Good luck and appreciate you sharing.

[OK-944]

Regarding the possibility mentioned by TT...that of preparing a story for Panorama magazine - I'd also say go for it, maybe starting with a query to them consisting of a concise outline plus a few photos (such as those here) which communicate something about the scale and challenges of your project, and which can present a compelling case for them to run with your story.

Having said the above...and as a two year member of the PCA, I remain absolutely astounded at Panorama's completely inexcusable and continuing lack of attention and coverage relating to our 944's and their front engined, water pumping relatives. Yes, they do throw us an occasional bone...but overall not nearly enough.

With this in mind...anything that you (or anyone else on this forum for that matter) can do to help our cars get the respect that they truly deserve would be most appreciated!

[originalowner]

I think you should be looking for a nice looking late car with a broken timing belt. Swap the engine and enjoy it.

[Monkey Wrench]

pulling the harness and replacing that does sound like a nightmare. probably better to pull the good parts.. and put them into some other car.
a couple years ago I completely disassembled a volvo, gee all the spare parts really helped me. no luck selling stuff but I used enough items that it seemed quite worthwhile.

I did pull the complete wiring harness and it is indeed a lot of wire. the engine harness does separate. its not al that bad on its own. if you just go one year different it will likely be extremely confusing.

taking apart a whole car is a good learning experience.. getting rid of all the precious bits you have strewn around and packed away after can take years.. most of the parts that you might want for troubleshooting are burned up.

thing is, as things get harder to find the spares are helpful, earlier on in this hobby I could go to a wrecker and pull my own parts, that program basically ended. you probably won't use more than 5% of it .