Off the deep end MAF and Turbo

[wolfrpi]

Well I finally did it - I ordered up the MAF and Turbo. The turbo is a garret unit from TEC supposed to be capable of supporting a maximum of 380 hp to the wheels. The MAF is coming from Technodyne (basically autothority with some tweeks). After setting it all up, I'll let you guys know how much hp I'm actually getting to the ground.

BTW - the turbo with some options came out to $1074 without a core.

Erick

[Blackfoot]

YES!!!

now we have finally someone who has an aftermarket setup we can get feedback from.

wolf, i think all 951 owners here who are contemplating major upgrades will be very interested in what happens to your car.

how much did the system set you back, what did tec say about it's supposed performance, and who will install it?

the main thing i'm looking for in an aftermarket system is quicker response. for me, if the system makes big power but it's delayed, it isn't worth considering. did tec promise you faster spooling than the stock k26?

----------------
it's all about having a test subject...

[scottewid]

Curious if anyone else had heard of/tried the Lindsey Racing turbo boost enhancer. I installed one this weekend and definitely get a lot more boost at lower rpms.

No other mods to my car other than PO put in Weltmeister chips in 1996. The car came with the original chips, but no documentation on the Weltmeisters and I can't find any info on the net about them (not sure if they still make them), so I'm not really sure what they do.

The boost enhancer is great, though, and makes a very noticeable difference. I can even hit 2bar at partial throttle now. At $90, I'd say it's a very worthwhile mod.

[wolfrpi]

If you're planning on keeping your car somewhat stock I absolutely agree. If you want to go to an electronic boost controller though, you will not need the enhancer.

Erick

[wolfrpi]

Blackfoot, I'm installing both the turbo and maf. The MAF setup that technodyne is like Huntley's in that you can adjust it for bigger injectors. There are only two adjustments though - idle and full throttle. Other than that it is pure autothority with the chips. I like Chris Cervelli at Technodyne - he's a nice guy who really knows about Porsches and 944s in particular. He also has the fastest 944 in the country. He never tried to give me the hard sell either. The price is comparable to the basic autothority system. The turbo from TEC is a Garret unit that uses a k26 like exhaust housing. TEC actually has the exhaust housing custom molded. We'll have to wait and see how accurate the final numbers will come out on the HP.

Erick

[porscheboi928s/c944t/n]

That's great!!but you should have asked him if it was a hybrid tubocharger(since it is a garrett)..co'z you know some of these places sells it to you by stages..and once you crave for more hp..all the stuffs that you put in will/could be useless..though do not get me wrong..the stages that they sell you is/are proven.......and this is one of the reason i try to stay away with them or could i just say avoid for now.....my 0.02 cents

[wolfrpi]

Thanks porscheboi - I did ask if it was a hybrid before I purchased the unit as hybrids have a pretty bad rap. It is not. I also ordered the thrust bearing option so that the turbo will perform well udner heavy and extended boosting.

As for hybrids, they have problems with oil leaking and self destruction due to the unforseen loading of the turbo shaft I believe. Because either the exhaust or compressor wheel is improperly sized for the unit, problems arise. With that said, I think most of the aftermarket turbos are hybrids if hybrid means what I think it means. Look at the K27/6. Originally a k26 compressor wheel turbo. Putting that big compressor would seem to me to be a lot more loading on the shaft designed for a k26 compressor housing. I think this is why the upgraded Powerhaus turbo (DR) has the larger shaft. Only time will tell though as to the horsepower number and the longevity as i am clearly not an expert on turbos. Bottom line though for $1000 with no core bs (I'm selling my original on Ebay), the turbo is a great deal if it is as good as it is supposed to be. You should check out the Rennlist discussion on this topic. There was a really knowledgable guy on there that also had good things to say about this turbo.

Erick

[Blackfoot]

do they have the ceramic bb option available for this turbo?

[porscheboi928s/c944t/n]

www.turbonetics.com

[wolfrpi]

Not sure Blackfoot - if you give them a call they'd let you know.

Erick

[lordgrommit]

With all this upper end work going on is there still a possiblity of oil starvation of the main Bearing's IE #2, with extended high RPM's..Wolf you and I talked about this when we met.. I know that 928's have oil starvation problems that were never rectified by the factory at high extenended RPM's the #2 bearing will starve.. Devek has a kit that will fix this problem on a 928.. since the bottom end of a 944 series car is 1/2 a 928 wouldn't it be supceptible to the same problems..I am talking high and extended RPM's like serious track time..any thoughts?

Matt

[1.2gees]

The #2 bearing's surface rotates further from the oil supply than any other bearing, in a 944 engine.

When the oil pressure drops, this is going to be one of the first spots to run dry.

However I believe that if the oil level is kept a tad above the full mark at all times (but specially during spirited driving), this wouldn't be a common/known problem for 944s at all.

PS: Heard of an Accusump (semi dry sump) system, pretty widely used by 944 racers, if you're concerned at all, it's not very expensive, and it relocates the oil filter (you can add an inline cooler pretty easy too), and solves the problem of running the #2 bearing dry. Carter used to sell them (via Krynock).
Ahmet

------------------
It's all the driver...

[wolfrpi]

To tell you the truth I am not positive...from what I have heard the problem arises from high cornering forces for extended periods of time. As most of you probably know this is how my 944S failed about three months ago. I think Jon Mildge? (Northeast tuner) mentions on his website that over .9gs will do the motor in. If anyone has anymore info please pass it on.
BTW - grommit - did you check out the turbo we were talking about?

Erick

[monteness]

Erick,

What type of dyno are you going to be using when you get your mods finished? I finally found a dynojet 248, I think, in Arkansas. Also, the turbo, Garret? Do your oil and water lines bolt in 100% or have to do mods?

Talked with Powerhaus and Windward about MAFs but will give the company you used a call,,,got that phone number? I still haven't decided on the turbo yet.....but still getting new water hoses, vaccum lines, gaskets, so when I do tear it apart hopefully will only have to do it once!

Keep us informed....

Bret



[This message has been edited by monteness (edited 03-23-2001).]

[wolfrpi]

Bret, I'll probably be using the 248? Dyno - I think it is the most common around here (Southern California). UPRD (Huntington Beach) has both load based and 248 type machines. They can also do 4wd cars. I'll probably stick with them as they seem to be pretty decent guys. While they said the load based dyno was more accurate, I'm hesistant to put my car under those conditions. I'll probably stick with the standard dynojet.

BTW - The water lines will need some modification to fit correclty, but I'm not to worried about that yet. The exhaust housing's outer dimensions are the same as the stock k26 because TEC casts its own housing to replicate the k26.

Erick

[Blackfoot]

erick, received any of your parts yet? very interested to hear step by step what you do and how you do it.



[This message has been edited by Blackfoot (edited 03-29-2001).]

[kukunaokala]

Turbo for $1k? ooOOHH!! Now I'm interested!!!

How much the MAF? Will I have to swap trans? I'll have more questions. Now I can spin those the 255/16's ooOOOH!!

I thought this was going to be a boring, "can I tweek this" thread.

This Board amazes me. Tell me it's for a 944. It's tax return time. Aloha, Neal

[This message has been edited by kukunaokala (edited 03-29-2001).]

[kukunaokala]

Taking a shower, bath, a walk to the liquor store can really open your thinking. I remember "without core charge". That should have tipped me off. Aloha and out, Neal

[CJFusco]

Lucky 951 drivers.

[wolfrpi]

Well I got the turbo and it looks pretty sweet. The bidding on my stock turbo on EBAY is at $150. So with delivery and if the bidder on my stock turbo comes through I'll have spent about $950 total for the TEC. That's a lot cheaper than Huntley and others cahrge for a good garret turbo unit. Moreover, TEC knows what its doing better than most. They sized the compressor wheel so that the optimum operating range would be from about 200 to 350 flywheel horsepower. With higher boost, the unit should put out close to 400 flywheel hp, but that is pressing it (20+psi). From using some software obtained via the net, I estimate that the stock "S" turbo is about 62% efficient at 15 psi and 5800 rpm (300 flywheel hp). I believe that means that only 62% of the air is actually being compressed because of the heat build up in the compressor housing. At that pressure the intercooler inlet temp is about 260 F (look at Lindsey racing's site). The stock K26 at 15 psi and 5800 rpm works out to be about 50% efficient (280 hp), heating the intercooler inlet up to about 300 F.

Also, the stock volumetric efficiency of the engine seems to be about 83% with stock flow meter at that pressure (probably drops off with more air flow). With a MAF, it works out to be about 88% at even higher pressures.

The T04E that I purchased should run at 74% efficiency up to about 20psi at 5800 rpm. Using these numbers, at 15 psi the car should produce about 340 hp. The corresponding intercooler intake temperature will be about 227 F!

At 20 psi, if the intercooler is capable and still efficient, the car should be producing about 380 hp with intercooler intake temps of about 260 degrees - the same as the "S" at 15 psi and with "only" 300 hp.

The big advantage that I can see with going with a bigger (within reason) turbo is the drastic reduction in intercooler intake temperatures. From my calculations, about 20 degrees cooler roughly equals 20 hp on turbocharged cars. On N/A, 20 degree reduction equals about 2% more hp. So about 3 hp! I still may revise the numbers after I actually get the car to a dyno.

Personally, I have my doubts about the K27/6 because it uses the stock turbo exhaust housing and because its rebuilt from the old turbo. That is why I did not go the Windward rebuild route. Otherwise I have heard that the K27/dr is a very good turbo, just big $$$.

The adjustable autothority MAF should be here tomorrow. Chris @ technodyne made a custom kit for the 70mm intake on the TEC turbo. Stock appears to be about 50 mm turbo inlet (guess). It was pricey, but still a little less than what others are charging for the standard Authority kit.

I'll try to get some pics when I get everything on the car. I think a pic of the stock vs. TEC turbo would be pretty illustrative also. Looking at the size of the stock turbo it is suprising how much HP it can put out.

Erick