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Whats easier to work on... 911 or 944
I want an 85-88 911 and wondered what people thinkabout work
ing on the two different cars. The clutch job on my 44 about drove me crazy ( short trip!) Mike
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'87 944 Maraschino Red Metallic Euro delivery...five speed |
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09-17-2003, 05:00 PM
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They both have their advantages and disadvantages. The 944 is very tight to work on and it is not exactly easy to drop the engine.
911 series, you can get to most everything quickly, but an extra knuckle on your fingers and an opposing elbow does help. Overall, I think the 944 is more labor intensive\more difficult to work on than a 911/930 - simply because I can drop the engine\transmission in just over an hour on the 911. (in all fairness, I have a lift and big jacks) On the other hand, the 993 - 1 hour to remove 11 of the spark plugs, and an additional 3 hours to get at the 12th. Book labor to change a waterpump on a 944 is 7 hours. AFJuvat
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Es geht nicht darum wie schnell man faehrt, sondern wie gut man schnell fahren kann. Ihr Brunnen der nutzlosen Porsche Information |
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09-17-2003, 05:41 PM
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Earlier 911 types are far easier to work on than any 944. I am not including later 911 iterations since the engineers have turned them into plumber's nightmares what with trying to defeat the laws of thermodynamics. There are a few tricky things on the 911, but if you have had experience or have a friend who has worked on air cooled Beetles you will have no trouble. As the years have progressed, Porsche automobiles, as far as shade tree work is concerned, have become increasingly user hostile.
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Bob S. former owner of a 1984 silver 944 |
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09-17-2003, 08:05 PM
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911/930 - 6 spark plugs, 1 oil filter, 2 drain plugs for oil
964 - 12 spark plugs, 1 oil filter, 3 drain plugs for oil 993 - 12 spark plugs (1 is 3 hours to get at with engine in car), 2 drain plugs for oil, 2 oil filters (one of which requires removal of lower trim panel, the other requires removal of some of the exhaust system. The 993 truly introduced the $200 - $250 oil change. 944 - 4 plugs, 1 oil filter (upside down... what is up with that!!??) 1 drain plug This is called the German sense of humor - hear that chuckling in your head, that is Hans, the engineer in charge of making you ask "what the hell were they thinking when they did that?" Hans is laughing at you. AFJuvat
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Es geht nicht darum wie schnell man faehrt, sondern wie gut man schnell fahren kann. Ihr Brunnen der nutzlosen Porsche Information |
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09-18-2003, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
What the hell was Hans thinking?  Seriously though, what is involved on that 12th plug? Damn near sounds like you have to seperate the engine and tranny somewhat to get to it.
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Jack 86 Red 951 - Turbo Twists, otherwise stock for now 83 Black 944 w/86 951 front end - still down and out, but coming back slowly. 02 Altima SE 3.5 - grocery go-getter 00 Yellow Ducati Monster 900i.e. 88 Chrysler Conquest TSi |
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09-18-2003, 05:06 AM
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I've pulled several motors on old beetles and enjoyed working on them. I suspected a 911(up to an 88 any how) would be a little easier than a 44. BOY! sounds like the new 11's are a DIY nightmare!
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'87 944 Maraschino Red Metallic Euro delivery...five speed |
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09-18-2003, 05:54 AM
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They are. I would not touch one with a 10 meter pole for that reason. The local dealer has a 993 on his lot that he cannot sell. Low milege, sharp looking. I wonder if the high cost per mile to run them scares people off....
The problem I have with the 944 is that the entire drive train seems to have been designed by a committee of sadists. I never want to change a clutch in one again. Once is enough..And I have never been able to figure out the timing belt quandry, and why Porsche stuck to such a troublesome design with the built in potential for total meltdown. As for looks, I still feel like a million bucks crusing the boulevard, though....
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Bob S. former owner of a 1984 silver 944 |
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09-18-2003, 11:22 AM
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Will work for parts
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Silicon Valley
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My dad has a 993. Great car. I drove it for about 400 miles on the way back home one time. I betchya I could do an oil change on that car as fast as I could do a clutch job on a 944! I read the article someone wrote and it said that it took him upwards of 8 hours.
-Greg
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'88 944 240,100 miles -race car '05 Boxster 110,000 - Daily Driver '74 911 Targa - long term project |
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09-18-2003, 06:46 PM
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I feel the "real" 911 went away in '89. I think the c2 c4 are ok,but I think they were the last of the real breed. We all have our own feelings on this topic I'm sure. My 44 is fun,... but I'm not in love with her.
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'87 944 Maraschino Red Metallic Euro delivery...five speed |
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09-18-2003, 08:25 PM
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Feral Cat
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Are the 996 and 986 any better? (He asks, hopefully...) I think you just smashed my dream of upgrading to a new 911 or Boxster when my daughter graduates from college in a couple of years.
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In search of: Air-cooled 993 Zen-simplicity (?) and mechanical cacophony. And garage space. Definitely need some garage space. |
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09-19-2003, 02:12 AM
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996 and 986 are easier in some ways - there are only 6 plugs. However, Porsche dispensed with distributors. it now uses a coil-on-wire system (meaning the each sparkplug has its own coil.
You need a 1/4" ratchet a small 5mm hex bit to get the coils off, then you can remove the spark plug. You must have some way of getting teh rear end of the car off the ground to do this though. 8 hours for an oil change on a 993 - no way. if you can get the car in the air, it takes about 30 minutes (but is extremely messy) On the 993, cylinder 6, upper bank is the "plug from hell" plug is blocked by various hoses, airboxes etc. The power steering belt on the 964 and 993 is another job that will raise profanity to an art form - the pump is located above cylinder 6 (see earlier comments about plug from hell) - pump is driven from the rear of the camshaft. and I still say the 911 is easier to work on. AFJuvat
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Es geht nicht darum wie schnell man faehrt, sondern wie gut man schnell fahren kann. Ihr Brunnen der nutzlosen Porsche Information |
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09-19-2003, 04:05 AM
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Feral Cat
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Wheels tuning (slowly) ... hmmmmm. So I might best revert back to "Plan A" which was what I wanted before I stumbled across the 944. The SC or the Carrera. I've always likes the styling better than the later cars. And the sounds. OK, so which is more reliable, a 25 year old SC or a 19 year old Carrera? Not that day to day reliability is going to be critical for a car that's only driven 2500 miles annually. I don't want a maintenance nightmare.
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In search of: Air-cooled 993 Zen-simplicity (?) and mechanical cacophony. And garage space. Definitely need some garage space. |
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09-19-2003, 05:24 AM
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I'm with Bill d cat... except I might put ten thousand miles annually.
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'87 944 Maraschino Red Metallic Euro delivery...five speed |
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09-19-2003, 05:38 AM
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Either can be reliable - all depends on who owned it and maintained it - presonal preference, go with the 84+ cars - they have the motronic system (same as 944) - little more user frioendly than the CIS
AFJuvat
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Es geht nicht darum wie schnell man faehrt, sondern wie gut man schnell fahren kann. Ihr Brunnen der nutzlosen Porsche Information |
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09-21-2003, 06:22 PM
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