Turbo's check this out! (i should charge for this, hehe)

[very~worn~944]

Hey guys. I have had my header panel off for the past few weeks getting undented and painted (absolutely BEAUTIFUL now). I never use my headlight sprayers since they destroy my clean paint. I have had the idea to hook the sprayers up to the intercooler. Tonight I accomplished my dream...and here are the processes and results...
I went to Autozone and bought 2 wacko 3/16th vacuum gizmos like this TTT I put 6 holes in my plastic intercooler ducting on top and ran the bottom of the TTT through the holes. Then i put rubber caps on all of them, holding them into the plastic and caping them. I ran a line across the top of them and to my headlight sprayer line. I used a tac to poke MANY holes in the tips of the rubber caps in the ducting to make injectors. I had to zip tie the lines together...but glue would probably work better, longer. I made sure it sprayed evenly and alot, then put it in the car.
I warmed up the car slowly, and it was at night which made getting it hot harder. After about 5 minutes i started to boost and get the turbo system warm...Once satisfied I ran full throttle in 3rd getting full boost. At about 4K rpm I held the sprayers cooling the intercooler...DAMN! I definately felt some increase in power. The main thing i noticed was how fast i was going. I ran another...spraying from a low rpm in 2nd. WOW..again felt some fun stuff. After about 10 minutes of hard boosting i got out and felt the intercooler.(remember no header panel on the car). Where the air inters on the left was hot..ouch. Where it exits to the intake? actually cold. Not luke warm, but chilled feelin.

For about 6 bucks, I would say a DEFINATE improvement. I haven't tryed it on a hot day on the freeway yet...but i will give you guys results. Perhaps i can get it on a dyno to be sure of myself. Anyways...any questions about this....ask.

I have also concidered running a WOT switch with a delay where if the car is Wide Open Throttle for more than 2 seconds it sprays the intercooler with a burst. This way it will be automatic, but at the same time not running through the water like no other. Perhaps this system will be on a switch, so it can be on or off. Any real electricians out there?

[todwic]

I like what you have to say here! I don't use my headlight washers, either (mostly cuz they don't work, leaky hose). Should your path take you to the Fresno area, we should do a run.

[TCMdocs944]

I freakin wish I had a 951!! That is a really cool, simple pseudo NOS trick. I love human ingenuity. So, let me make sure i have you right..

Your washer now sprays(like a trickle hose) or maybe bathes is a better word, your intercooler with water for additional exterior cooling?
Kewl.

As for me, I am stuck with the hole I modified in my air intake box that will fit a 7-11 slurpy cup. When I want cold air intake, just pull into the store, pop a 44 ouncer in there, and WATCH OUT.

[ae1969]

Uhmmmmm that could actually work really well! The cars is being torn down this winter..... I am definitely going to put this on my list.

[TCMdocs944]

It is too bad that other "liquids" don't mix with the internal combustion engine or metal for that matter.
Quicker evaporation = more heat dissipation
Alcohol would work 3x as well
Acetone 4x as well
Florimethane (topical anestetic/refrigerant) 100x

I would hesistate to put any of these in my washer tank, much less an intercooler.

Hmmm, anything else that evaporates quickly and wouldn't damage?

[BlueQuestTSi]

Now you need to go to the next step..

I use a water/alcohol 50-50 mixture that is sprayed directly into the throttle body. It's run off of a pressure switch, when the boost pressure reaches 4psi, the system is activated and continues to spray up until I shift gears(BOV releases pressure in hard pipes, thus shutting off the injection).

My mixture I use is simply Denatured water and Denatured Alcohol. The water being sprayed into the intake cools off the mixture, and the alcohol raises the octane level of the fuel being burned. This allows you to run higher boost levels, and more advanced timing, plus it makes the air/fuel mixture slightly denser.


The only real draw back to spraying the IC directly, is if you aren't using a misting nozzle, you will spray too much water. This will show up in the form of dripping water under the car, which is a big Track no-no and could cause you to not enjoy the rest of your evening at the race track.

[Lawrence Coppari]

I've had a sprayer mounted just like yours for the past couple of years. I use it on hot days at Road Atlanta. The problem is that my washer pump quit working. I don't think the pumps are made for that frequent use.

I have mine hookded into the duct that feeds the intercooler. I have 3 little nozzles that atomize the water. I once had a switch that would change the horn from blowing the horn to running the pump. I would switch it over for a little extra at track events. Got tired of pushing on the horn so I put another switch on the floor so I can push it with my left foot.

I have been meaning to come up with another pump that will last a little longer. Maybe mine was old, I don't know.

If you mix rubbing alcohol with water, you'll get more cooling. Rubbing alcohol is cheap and when diluted in water, it is not flammable. I have tested mine on the acceleration runs from 70 to 100 mph in third gear. It reduced the time by about 0.15 seconds on my car which is significant when the car only takes about 4 seconds to do the test.

[drew1]

I think that windshield washer fluid is a methanol water mix.

drew1

[todwic]

Originally posted by TCMdocs944
It is too bad that other "liquids" don't mix with the internal combustion engine or metal for that matter.
Quicker evaporation = more heat dissipation
Alcohol would work 3x as well
Acetone 4x as well
Florimethane (topical anestetic/refrigerant) 100x

I would hesistate to put any of these in my washer tank, much less an intercooler.

Hmmm, anything else that evaporates quickly and wouldn't damage?

Water is just the trick, they sell kits, tho I do appreciate Blues mixture. It doesn't bother the internal combustion process (or the metal, for that matter) because by the time it hits your chamber it's a gas. Things are waaaay too hot in there for hydrous oxide to hang around, so it splits with the rest of it's water buddies out the exhaust. (H₂O is a byproduct of combustion, anyway). What kind of nozzle do you use to get proper mistification?

[TCMdocs944]

Ahhhh, I love science.

[very~worn~944]

Are you guys talking about water INJECTION? I am not injecting water INTO the motor...just across the intercooler...cooling it. It just finely mists the outside to cool the thing off. I don't feel comfortable injecting into my intake...yet.

[todwic]

oh

I see

I'm taking two pts off, adding a pt. for having more brains than I do, and adding another pt. for not burning up your pump like someone else did. I think I'll check out the kits and see how well metered the mist has to be etc. Anyone have any input? Does anyone have a water injecting kit on thier turbo?

[Lawrence Coppari]

Water is on the EXTERIOR of the intercooler. It evaporates because the intercooler is hot. When it evaporates, it sucks up a lot of heat - boiling heat transfer.

Where I live, there is a lot of lime in the water. Eventually that will cling to the outside of your intercooler. Just look at your shower heads. I used to use condensate from the house air conditioning system. That is distilled and there is a lot of it.

[rammstein]

Interesting, interesting thread. You could buy distilled water from the store too for $.99/gallon, although Lawrence harvesting his own from the house A/C is even better (wow, somebody else who is pinching every penny).

You could also go to 7/11 and get a big bag of ice and put ice in with the water in the washer reservoir. Would making the water really cold help? (I thought it might).

And mr. Very~worn~944 - you really felt a difference right as you sprayed? It didn't take a minute?

This is very exciting to think about..

[Lawrence Coppari]

A penny saved is a penny earned - so said B. Franklin, I think.

My Old Man used to say "if you watch your pennies, your dollars take care of themselves."

[BlueQuestTSi]

Originally posted by very~worn~944
Are you guys talking about water INJECTION? I am not injecting water INTO the motor...just across the intercooler...cooling it. It just finely mists the outside to cool the thing off. I don't feel comfortable injecting into my intake...yet.

I was. That's what I meant by take it to the next level




Todwic,

I'm using a Spearco water injection kit in my car. The nozzle has a very tiny orafice, so I truly couldn't tell you what size it is. It's supposed to be engineered to provide a mist, and is cut in such a way that it's a directional nozzle so it can be directed into the intake, as opposed to just puddleing(sp?) up.

When I bought my kit, I did a TON of research on the web. The biggest hits can be found through a search on Google for Water Injection kits. The Buick GN guys seem pretty heavy in to it, and usually have the best write up's on DIY systems. The nozzles can be found through some of the other supplier's like Aquamist(I believe that's their name). As to finding the proper sized nozzle, I'm sure it's a bit of hit-and-miss. As to big of a nozzle will act like a flooding issue, too small and you won't reap all the benefits. That's why I chose the Spearco unit, only 3 nozzles to choose from and they were based on engine displacement. If I had it all to do again though, I'd probably buy one of the better kits on the market. The Spearco is okay, but I'm sure there are better.


I said denatured water in my first reply, I meant Distilled And yes, some windshield washer fluids contain Methanol. I've read debates on actually spraying that into the intake, as it's technically just water and alcohol with a dye to make it blue....

[todwic]

How much was your spearco kit, and can you feel a huge differance? I heard water inj. was the shizzle on my nizzle.

[BlueQuestTSi]

Originally posted by todwic
How much was your spearco kit, and can you feel a huge differance? I heard water inj. was the shizzle on my nizzle.

I paid about $250 on the Spearco kit. The kit itself really doesn't add much by itself, slightly cooler/denser intake charge, and a boost in octane, but it's not a seat of the pants difference(in my car at least). You'd really have to make runs, to calculate a difference. What it does allow, is increased boost(past the standard 'safety' margin) and allows you to advance timing. This is where the seat of the pants performance gains are seen.


Now depending on how the Porsche turbo cars control ignition and boost levels, water injection could make a huge difference by itself. But my Conquest has a standard vacuum controlled distributor, and boost control isn't monitored at all by the ECM(preset at 2 levels, 7psi and 10psi). So to feel the full gains and potential of the water/alcohol injection, I have to actually wrench on the car to make the performance changes.

Just as an idea, without mods to fuel delivery 14psi is considered the maximum safety level before knock can set in. I've run up to 20psi on the water/alcohol with a significant improvement in acceleration and 3 bars of richness on the A/F gauge and no knock or ignition retard from the ECM.

[emwporsche]

where is the resevior for the headlight washers at?

[XJOSHX]

http://www.smcenterprises.com/ I had their kit in a few of my turbo cars and it works great. If you are enot pushing enough water to hydrolock the engine it very well could be a good thing