OT: Two non-Porsche car questions...

Rollins · 08-28-2001, 06:25 PM

Hey guys, sorry I am posting this here but the guys at VW vortex don't answer posts that don't relate to rice (Even in the technical forum!!) I appreciate any help you can give. The car I am speaking of is my 95 Jetta GL (it's got 72k miles and is in very good shape aside from these two problems...)Lately I have noticed that my A/C is losing its cooling effect. It seems to blow cold for a few minutes and then gradually stops blowing cold and blows cool to warm air. Nothing hot, just not cold enough (for Florida weather!). So the question is do I just need a freon charge? Or is there likely to be something deeper at the center of this. I don't know the service record of the A/C but it worked fine when I got the car. I was thinking about getting one of those 134a recharge kits and doing it myself if possible. I have also noticed recently that occasionly when I start her up there is a ticking sound.It sounds like it is coming from somewhere around the head. It gets faster with the rpms when I press the accelerator. After a few seconds it usually goes away. The sound is similar to what an engine sounds like when it is low on oil . I have check my oil levels and added a small bit but there are no leaks and minimal consumption. Does anyone have any idea what might be making this sound? I have heard it could be the lifters so I put some stuff in that is supposed to help them Thanks for any help. I wanna find out what this is and fix it myself rather than go to the mechanic's.
-Tim

Bob's944 · Bob's944's Garage

i'm not familiar with vw a/c, but is your recycle/fresh air switch working properly? also check to see that the condensor doesn't have any obstructions on it, alot of times a plastic bag will get stuck down there. I also think that if you have obstructions inside the condensor from debris, usually teflon flakes from certain compressors, it would have those symptoms.

mideastmafia · 08-28-2001, 06:47 PM

the ticking is probably your fuel injection.

SHAUN

Obin Robinson · 08-28-2001, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rollins:
Hey guys, sorry I am posting this here but the guys at VW vortex don't answer posts that don't relate to rice (Even in the technical forum!!) I appreciate any help you can give. The car I am speaking of is my 95 Jetta GL (it's got 72k miles and is in very good shape aside from these two problems...)Lately I have noticed that my A/C is losing its cooling effect. It seems to blow cold for a few minutes and then gradually stops blowing cold and blows cool to warm air. Nothing hot, just not cold enough (for Florida weather!). So the question is do I just need a freon charge? Or is there likely to be something deeper at the center of this. I don't know the service record of the A/C but it worked fine when I got the car. I was thinking about getting one of those 134a recharge kits and doing it myself if possible. I have also noticed recently that occasionly when I start her up there is a ticking sound.It sounds like it is coming from somewhere around the head. It gets faster with the rpms when I press the accelerator. After a few seconds it usually goes away. The sound is similar to what an engine sounds like when it is low on oil . I have check my oil levels and added a small bit but there are no leaks and minimal consumption. Does anyone have any idea what might be making this sound? I have heard it could be the lifters so I put some stuff in that is supposed to help them Thanks for any help. I wanna find out what this is and fix it myself rather than go to the mechanic's.
-Tim

that ticking sound:

get some really nice "sludge remover" and do an oil and filter change on your car. refill with oil, drive around and see if it still is there. if it still ticks, do ANOTHER "sludge remover" oil change (some crap is so gunky that it takes two tries to free it). fill with new oil and check for second time.

if it still ticks then it's s sticky lifter that is being stubborn.

this sound is common on higher-mileage VWs. in 9 out of 10 times it can be fixed by some sludge remover and some new oil. my VW has done this twice. in both instances it was oil. in both instances i used sludge remover, and the sound went away. i like the "Gunk" brand sludge remover. i have used it in every car i own for the past 8 years. my Nissan had 178,000 miles on it and it ran like a top (despite the fact that similar Nissans used to die at 100,000 - 120,000 miles due to timing chain failure from IMPROPER OILING).

also, which forum did you ask this question in? i usually get really fast responses.

good luck!

obin

jseel · 08-28-2001, 06:54 PM

the ticking could be the hydralic lifters, which get sticky when cold,they have residue on them and there is no oil around them when cold. try a professional oil additive like BG products-Quick Clean,MOA,or RF-7. they have solved this problem in a lot of different cars for me.my 944 did the same thing till i used these.

Rollins · 08-28-2001, 07:01 PM

Thanks for the response Obin. I will pick up a bottle of the Gunk sludge remover. The oil which is in the car is about 1000 miles old. But walmart has the Mobil 1 on sale (15 bucks for 5 qts) so I am going to pick some of that up along with a freon recharge kit. OH and I posted my questions in the 2.0 technical forum. I quit trying in the jetta 3 forum because all you see in there is posts like "Like my new airdam?" and "my new rims kick ass". They NEVER answer any questions of a technical nature, but if you mention you like a certain rim you will get 100 posts agreeing and 100 telling you that you suck.

The technical forum is much better but it's all the same crap "What's better, a supercharger or a turbo?" etc etc.

Bob's944 · Bob's944's Garage

Do you know where the sound is coming from exactly? You can use a large screwdriver to listen to the engine by putting the handle end to your ear and the blade to the area you want to check. Move it around till you find where your noise is. It sounds to me like you have some sort of sticking lifters that are loosening up as it gets warm.

Rollins · 08-28-2001, 07:13 PM

I will try that screwdriver idea, but it sounds like it is coming from under the head or in the general area. I think it is the lifters as others have mentioned though.

Obin Robinson · 08-29-2001, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rollins:
Thanks for the response Obin. I will pick up a bottle of the Gunk sludge remover. The oil which is in the car is about 1000 miles old. But walmart has the Mobil 1 on sale (15 bucks for 5 qts) so I am going to pick some of that up along with a freon recharge kit. OH and I posted my questions in the 2.0 technical forum. I quit trying in the jetta 3 forum because all you see in there is posts like "Like my new airdam?" and "my new rims kick ass". They NEVER answer any questions of a technical nature, but if you mention you like a certain rim you will get 100 posts agreeing and 100 telling you that you suck. The technical forum is much better but it's all the same crap "What's better, a supercharger or a turbo?" etc etc.

yeah, it happened to me 1000 miles after an oil change and i was PISSED. but i had regular oil in there. the sludge remover has to be run for 5 minutes and then you just do an oil change. the ol comes out dirty and looking like tar. after that, you just run new oil in and see if the sound went away. sometimes it may take two applications. worst case, you're out only a little bit of cash, and you KNOW it's a lifter that needs to be replaced (or unstuck). also, i use Mobil 1 oil and i also put in this "CD-2" additive that helps to free sticky lifters. Lubro Moly makes something similar and it works great too.

also, the results are not always instantaneoous. it may take a few minutes of driving around for the chemicals to unstick the problematic lifter.

heh heh, i never check the Jetta forums, often i check the forum that is specific to the engine in my car (like the 16V forum). that forum is much better for engine and drivetrain issues. the Scirocco one is more for car cosmetics.

good luck!

tell us how it goes

obin

Rollins · 08-29-2001, 10:25 AM

I too put some of that CD2 stuff in and I have seen no change whatsoever. The sound doesn't seem to happen at start up now, it now happens after I have been driving for a while. I tried three auto stores today and strangely all were out of the Gunk stuff. I did pick up the A/C stuff. Now the problem is I don't know where the low end connector is.

Rollins · 08-29-2001, 06:41 PM

Obin, I got some of the gunk stuff (4 stores and I got the last bottle!) and I did the whole thing and oil change. I put in some Mobil 1 15w50 and the difference was remarkable. The clicking is gone, and the engine runs quieter (and feels stronger too). Thanks for the help!

fireboss · 08-29-2001, 07:24 PM

sounds like the oil changes did the trick. Now on your a.c., You did not say how many miles you had on the car but it is normal for higher mialage cars to eventualy lose some of the freon from the front seal on the compressor. 1st make sure you car uses 134a as a refrigerant and not the old r12. There should be a lable under the hood some place. next remember that the low air pressuer side is the one that is cold when the the system is in opperation. NEVER hook up to the high pressure side. It could cause the freon can to blow up in your face. Be sure you know what your doing before recharging your system. Check to see if you have a site glass on your dryer. If you see air in the site glass you could be do for a charge. Most a.c. systems will shut down when they get too low. If yours is working only a little bit (you have to keep the rpm up to get it cold) then you are probly just low. Be careful and add just one can. You can over charge a system. This is not like just filling up a bucket.

Rollins · 08-29-2001, 07:48 PM

Hey Fireboss, my car is a 95 with 72,500 miles on it. So I wouldn't necesarily call it high mileage. but I do think that it is simply a lack of freon. I bought the kit and two bottles, so I just need to get a chance to go digging around down there and find the proper input to hook up to and then to actually put the can in. I willdo it with the utmost care though as I don't think I'd enjoy having a can blow up on my face.

Obin Robinson · 08-30-2001, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rollins:
Obin, I got some of the gunk stuff (4 stores and I got the last bottle!) and I did the whole thing and oil change. I put in some Mobil 1 15w50 and the difference was remarkable. The clicking is gone, and the engine runs quieter (and feels stronger too). Thanks for the help!

heh, no problem

. i know it's annoying to waste the oil, but that clicking noise can get annoying. also, to prevent it from coming back... make sure the oil stays at the rated capacity (i find it best to have it stay at the 2/3 mark on the dipstick.

also, that Gunk sludge remover seems to be pretty popular, i once had to go to three stores to find it too. it works wonders on high mileage cars.

obin

PrerYDoG · 08-30-2001, 12:25 PM

Obin - Would using the Gunk remover be a good idea on any high mileage car? Like our porsche's?

Obin Robinson · 08-31-2001, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PrerYDoG:
Obin - Would using the Gunk remover be a good idea on any high mileage car? Like our porsche's?

i first started using the stuff back in high school. my friends had high mileage cars that they got for cheap and you all know that the motors on $300 cars tend to be pretty beat. my friend Kirk had a Honda Civic which had around 200,000 miles on the odometer. we noticed that the engine ran kind of "lopey". an oil change worked, but his uncle (who was a mechanic) recommended some "sludge remover". we tried it again and the engine felt like it had been given a new lease on life.

we then tried it on my Nissan (which had only about 30,000 miles on it... worked great, and i used it at every oil change (or two) up to 178,000 miles.

same deal with my Mercedes. made the engine run even better. when we first got my 924, the idle was "chunky" and the oil pressure was low. some sludge remover was used and then the oil pressure shot right back up to normal. we did the same to the 944.... similar results.

in EVERY single case to date, sludge remover not only made the old oil come out really thick and dark, but after that the car started smoother, and ran smoother. in no case i've ever seen or heard of in my life did it cause any problems, including oil leaks. what it basically is doing is loosening up all the chunks of sticky oil inside of your crankcase, and letting it drain out with the old oil. you let the engine warm up and it takes the gunk right off as it heats up. if you've ever disassembled an engine, you will know this gunky crap i'm talking about. it looks and feels almost like syrup on the inside of your engine. it's stuff like that which gums up a hydraulic lifter and causes it to make that ticking sound.

put it this way, my Nissan was known for messing up timing chains, and the hydraulic lifters usually had a lifetime of 120,000-150,000 miles or so. i had a crankcase leak at 132,000 miles and i asked the mechanic what condition the engine was when he took it apart. he said "it looks fabulous, i can tell you've been taking care of it. if you keep on doing whatever you're doing then you should be able to drive this to 200,000 miles, but your timing chain may break at about 160,000 or so. i have seen them break much earlier."

thgis is the problem that affected my Nissan engine:

http://www.240sx.org/faq/articles/timing_belt_questions.htm

you can see how sludge remover literaly save your engine if your car has a situation like that.

well, our car got totalled one more time (not our fault at all) and THAT is what killed the Nissan. even up to the last day before the scrapyard came to tow it away, the Motor started up 100% reliable and sounded like it just left the factory.

i'd recommend using "sludge remover" on any high mileage car that has the oil pressure anything below normal. remember that the 944 and 944 turbos can have problems with improper oiling, causing bearing failure. sludge remover will make sure that the oil going through the engine isn't getting gummed up or stuck anywhere along the way.

give it a shot, i use the "Gunk" brand, and i'll keep using it as long as i need to put oil in my cars. Lubro Moly also makes a similar product.

here's some more info on the subject:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/trek/4wd/oil2.htm

"Now science and engineering cannot predict everything, and SLUDGE is proof of that. By the middle of the 80s, if you pulled down an engine, it was usually pretty clean and sludge-free (if you had used a good oil, had changed it often enough and didn't thrash your engine). Suddenly, SLUDGE began to appear in some of the newer engines. Sometimes there was so much sludge, that the oil ways (galleries) in the block would be full of sludge, and the engine would fail.

Even now, the oil companies are not too sure why SLUDGE appeared. It did seem to be more common in small-capacity, high-revving, high-power, multi-cylinder, multi-valve engines with small sumps and small oil galleries - such as the Honda Legend. The higher temperature inside a turbo engine made the sludge problem worse.

The SG oils were on their way, so they were designed to minimise sludge. Even today, with some of these engines, the only "cure" is to use an SG synthetic or semi-synthetic oil, and to change it often.

The oil in a modern engine has a very hard job. According to Gregory's "Automotive Mechanics Fundamentals", oil has to reduce friction and wear between moving parts, carry heat away from hot areas, keep the inside of the engine clean by removing contaminants (such as metal, dirt, platic, rubber and anything else), reduce power loss and improve fuel economy and absorb shock between moving parts to quieten engine operation and increase engine life. As well as that, it should not foam, not oxidise or burn when overheated, and it should even keep oilseals soft and flexible.

So the black goop you pour into your engine is now more than a liquid - it's part of an organ or system that includes the oil pan, the oil pump, the oil filter and the oil galleries. (At maximum power, it can take 4 kW to run the oil pump.)

But modern engines make oil work harder. Less oil in the sump means a lighter engine, but the oil has less reserve capacity. In an overhead-cam engine, the oil takes longer to reach all moving parts on start-up. Spraying oil onto the bottom of a piston in a turbo engine keeps the piston cooler - but the oil is more likely to oxidise under continuous high-power work (like long runs on soft sand).

Turbos are powered by exhaust gases, so the bearings get very hot. What about the "heat soak" problem if, after a hard run, the engine is not idled for a few minutes, but just switched off immediately?

Shorter pistons are lighter, but they are also more likely to "rock" and let oil into the combustion chamber. The upper piston ring can reach 250oC - low-quality oils could break down and form resins which would make the rings stick. Sticking rings can cause problems from loss of compression, to increased oil consumption, to engine seizing. This problem is more common in turbo indirect-injection diesels."

http://www.tpub.com/engine3/en32-44.htm

"Various factors tend to cause sludge to form in an engine. Carbon from the combustion chambers or from the evaporation of oil on a hot surface, such as the underside of a piston, will cause sludge to form. Gummy, partially burned fuel, which gets past the piston rings, or an emul-sion of lubricating oil and water, which may enter the lubricating oil system, will also tend to form sludge.

Sludge in the lubricating oil system of an engine is harmful for several reasons. In addition to carbon and gummy material, sludge may contain abrasive ingredients, such as dust from the atmosphere; rust as a result of water condensation in the engine; and metallic particles resulting from wear of engine parts. Sludge in engine lubricating oil causes premature wear of parts and eventual breakdown of the engine. Sludge may clog the oil pump screen or collect at the end of the oil passage leading to a bearing, thereby preventing sufficient oil from reaching the parts to be lubricated. Sludge may coat the in-side of the crankcase, act as an insulator, and blanket the heat inside the engine. This condition will cause the oil temperature to increase and induce oxidation. Sludge may accumulate on the underside of the pistons and prevent proper heat transfer, thereby raising piston temperatures. Sludge in lubricating oil also contributes to sticking piston rings, a condition that will affect the ability of the rings to seal the cylinder."

good luck!

obin