mechanics

[yOnKiNaToR]

ok, i'm 17 and i don't know much about fixing a car...how hard would it be to put in a master and/or slave cylinder by myself? i have limited money so i don't wanna get raped by taking it to a dealer or expensive shop.

[stray15]

Its not real hard at all. Go out and buy a Haynes manual you get your hands dirty. The only diffuclt thing is bleeding the system. Why are you planning on replacing them if I may ask?

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Porsche, through and through
Tim
'83 944

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[yOnKiNaToR]

well, my clutch started going in by itself when i just touched it and now it goes all the way down to the floor and i can't shift so that's what i figured it was and i looked under the clutch pedal and seen fluid leaking down to the carpet and new that had to be it. also, the thin i don't know how to do is bleed the system. how do i bleed the clutch?

[Scott R]

The Haynes manual is a good resource, but here is a link to the "944 Garage" This is an in-depth shop manual written by an individual with a wealth of knowldge. The bleeding procedure is here, and thats the toughest part. But still an easy job!

http://porsche-944-garage.tripod.com/

[yOnKiNaToR]

maybe i'm stupid but why do you have to remove the starter to change the slave cylinder? also, should i just replace the slave cylinder or both slave and master cylinder? i looked underneath the clutch pedal and seen that i was leaking and that is the slave cylinder, but htat doesn't mean that the master cylinder is bad.

[Bob's944]

If you are seeing hydraulic fluid by your clutch pedal, that's the clutch master cylinder that is bad. It's only alittle difficult to get at, alil harder if you have air conditioning as the a/c lines pass by the area you'll be working in under the hood and right by your brake booster and it's master cylinder. You do have to remove the starter (no big deal) to get at the slave cylinder that is located at the clutch under the car. Your slave cylinder may be good, but if it's as old as the master, it's time is probably at it's end also, or soon to be. Bleeding without some kinda bleeding system can be a TOTAL *****, mine took along time to get done manually, so either do it manually with alot of patience, mine was accomplished over a 24 hour period with plenty of time in between depressing the pedal to allow the fluid to seep down by gravity, or invest in some type of bleeding pump.

[yOnKiNaToR]

i know if you changed the slave cylinder, that yo uhave to bleed it by pumping the clutch, but if i change the master cylinder will i have to pump the brake to bleed that? will i have pump both pedals?

[Bob's944]

You only need to pump the clutch to bleed the clutch slave and master cylinders, but as I said that can be very trying and require some patience. It is accomplished the exact same way you do the brakes system, only this time you're doing the hydraulic clutch system. When you bleed the master cylinder, you are bleeding the slave at the same time... you are bleeding the system. When your doing the brakes, it's the same only you have 4 slaves, each brake caliper is a slave.

[Bob's944]

I think where you are getting confused is that you have 2 master cylinders in your car, one for the clutch, one for the brakes, they are not related, just work similarly.

[yOnKiNaToR]

oh, i guess i am confused...where is the clutch master and slave cylinder located? i've been looking at the top of the car and a little black disk tipped up and the slave cylinder is right next to that. people in my area don't know porsches. oh well..i'm getting a haynes manual along with my newly ordered clutch master and slave cylinder. maybe that will help me out.

[Bob's944]

This is a pic of my 944, I'm guessing your 924S will be very similar. The master cylinder would be about 5" below all the hoses you see directly in the center of this pic. You'll need a good socket set with the 'round the corner' swivel socket to get at the back mounting bolt. It would also be good to have a flare wrench to remove the hydraulic line goin out of the master cylinder to prevent stripping the bolt.



as far as the slave goes, here's the pic out of the haynes manual, the starter has already been removed in the pic and the wrench is on one of the mounting bolts for the slave.



hope that helps

[Bob's944]

Anuther detail that might help you is that both clutch and brakes share the same reservoir which feeds both brake and clutch master cylinders.

[scottewid]

Bob, I'm thinking I'll need to replace my master in the near future, but was baffled at how to get past to it past the a/c lines.

Did you use the "around the corner" socket to get past them? Maybe I'm thinking of something different, but I couldn't see how an extention with 90 degree swivel would help. Is there a special technique?

thks, scott

[Bob's944]

Getting at the clutch master cyl is somewhat of a *****, especially if you have big hands. You need to dissamble the hoses that are in the center of the pic (and later put them back the rite way) and gain access to it from there. I might have used a combination of swivels and small extentions to get the back master cyl mounting bolt started, and finished off with my 12" snake extention. My snake extention can't take hardly any torque, but I've found it invaluable for getting at alot of nuts and bolts in a 944. I needed it under the dash for getting at a bolt on cover that must be removed to get at the clutch pedal also, the nut closest to the fender is the tough one. Once the hydraulic line is removed (flare wrench, go buy a set) the master cylinder can be worked out of there.

[Drago]

Originally posted by Bob's944:
Anuther detail that might help you is that both clutch and brakes share the same reservoir which feeds both brake and clutch master cylinders.

I'm replacing my brake master cylinder this weekend. Since the clutch and brakes share the same reservoir will I have to bleed the clutch after I finish bleeding the brakes?

Probably a good idea anyway right???

Need to know as I'll have to allow for the extra time it takes, or I'll have to buy a pump of some kind.



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Marc
'86 944 NA

[Bob's944]

I never had to replace my brake master cyl, but here's a quote from the Hayne's Manual page 161, 15.1,

"It will probably be necessary to bleed the system at all four brakes and the clutch if air has entered the system due to low fluid level, or if the brake lines have been disconnected at the master cylinder"

When replacing the brake master cyl you would be disconnectong the brake lines coming out of it, so looks like you would need to bleed the clutch also (good time to fill the system with Super Blue Pacing Brake Fluid). As long as you keep the fluid level high enough when doing the clutch only part of the system, you shouldn't have to bleed the brakes in addition to the clutch slave.

[Drago]

SNIP:

Originally posted by Bob's944:
(good time to fill the system with Super Blue Pacing Brake Fluid). [/B]

Got a liter of ATE Super Blue along with the MC from Pelican. Looks like I'll be shopping for a bleed pump this evening.

Thanks for the info!



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Marc
'86 944 NA

[yOnKiNaToR]

somebody must have gaven me bad instructions b/c directly beneath those wires is a cylinder that i thought was the slave cylinder and i guess you are saying that that is the master cylinder. is the slave cylinder below that. from the looks of that one picture, you have to almost get underneath the car to take out the slave cylinder.

[Bob's944]

Yes, u have to get under the car to remove the starter and get at the slave cyl.

[yOnKiNaToR]

ok...since i'm replacing both master and slave cylinders, do i have to release the bleed nipple on the master cylinder only? or just the slave cylinder? or does it matter?