Rebuilding control arms a bad idea?

[SlowToady]

I think my ball joints have finally given up the ghost (after 18 years of _hard_ driving) and I was going to simply rebuild them, but I found an article at RennList that suggests that this is not a good idea for cars that see hard use, and in fact, Porsche frowns on this and does not recommend it. Instead, it is recommended to get either aftermarket arms or get new arms from Porsche AG.

Is this a valid concern? I'm hoping to AutoX my baby and it definately sees spirited street use quite often, so if rebuilt arms really aren't a good idea, then I have to decide whether to get factory arms or aftermarket arms.

What do you guys think?

http://www.rennlist.com/techarticles/944ControlArmReplace.htm

[AFJuvat]

The ones that are available aftermarket are rebuilt Porsche control arms - they are resleeved in steel, rather than the plastic sleeve on the factory ones.

INstall them all the time, no issues at all - even on track cars.

AFJuvat

[SlowToady]

The aftermarket arms I was thinking of getting were Kokeln tube arms, or a set of the arms RacerBvd has on his 944 track car.

Do you happen to know the price of the arms (per pair) from Porsche? Depending on how much they are, I might just get custom arms instead.

So would you recommend getting them rebuilt by someone else, doing it myself, or getting custom arms?

[AFJuvat]

I was thinking more along the lines of the rebuilt ones they sell at tweeks or automotion for $199.99 each.

From Porsche new, they are approximately $574 each.

No experience at all with other aftermarket brands.

AFJuvat

[Eric 951]

Toady,

No problems with the Mark Blaszak rebuilts on my turbo--2 years and 20K later--they ran about 130.00+core at the time. Rennbay sells DIY kits, if interested in going that route.

[tifosiman]

Let me also make a point to mention the kits from SSI Auto, http://www.ssiauto.com/index.shtml?/porscheperformance.shtml.

They come with brass bushings and are very stout. The kits are copies of the balljoints that were in the 951 turbo cup cars.

I personally would not purchase the rebuilt units from tweeks or automotion. They are "rebuilt" by remobing the internals, honing out the inside of the socket, and pressing in a sealed kit (commonly a "febi" kit). Thus making it un-rebuildable in the future..

The issue with aluminum control arms really is cracking at the edge of the sockets on cars that have been lowered that still retain stock spring rates. If the car is stock height, or it is lowered with a high spring rate, there will be no issue with them.

The Blaszak arms are really nice, you can't go wrong there.

One thing to keep in mind, while we are on the subject of A-arms:

If you ever plan to do a DE, there are certain regions that do not allow stock a-arms on lowered cars. So if you plan on doing a DE, and have lowered your car or plan to, be safe and buy the Blaszak arms.

Otherwise, I would rebuild your a-arms with the Rennbay, KLA, or SSI kits and be done with it!

Good luck!

[SlowToady]

Thanks for the info guys.

I'm hoping to AutoX, but the next year is rather uncertain with school and what not, so I don't know if I'll get the chance. I think I might just rebuild them with the SSI kit, even though I'd like the custom arms, school coming up makes spending >$1000 on A-arms a hefty proposition.

Thanks!

[very~worn~944]

tifosiman, First off whenever I look at pictures of your car I fall in love. You have exactly what i dream my car to be when its done....but turbo of course . I can't compliment you enough on how sick that is!

Now that that is straight I have some questions. What do you guys feel when driving a car with bad ball joints? Also how do you like your "coil over" setup? I have been concidering the same mod as i have yellow adj. rebound koni's currently, and would like to have an adjustable ride hieght(a little softer springs perhaps, as this is a SPIRITED daily driver). Would you recommend that setup to others? Also in the front end department are the A-arm bushings and spring plates. All my rubber is toast and I have been looking at stiffer replacements. Are there any denser rubber bushings out there that are quality? I have looked at the spherical bearing setup and like what I see. Have you guys had any expiriance with these for both a-arm bushings and spring plates? Are there downsides to using these on the street? Keep in mind I am still young and dumb, and don't really mind the stiff ride as far as comfort is concerned. But if noise or vibration is ten fold more as I would expect, I think i might want to find some other high strength solution.

Last but not least....is the 968 hatch a direct bolt-on replacement? Thanks in advance guys

[hoover]

Is there a contact number for the Blaszak arms, here in the uk there is little on offer.

[tifosiman]

tifosiman, First off whenever I look at pictures of your car I fall in love. You have exactly what i dream my car to be when its done....but turbo of course . I can't compliment you enough on how sick that is!

Thanks for the compliments!

Now that that is straight I have some questions. What do you guys feel when driving a car with bad ball joints?

There will be something that feels "not quite right". You will also get a clunking occassionally over bumps, and sometimes wheel shudder and vibration at speed.

Also how do you like your "coil over" setup?

They are very nice. The rate is a tad high for a car that is driven occasionally on the street, but it is not that bad, even my GF doesn't complain about it and likes the ride feel actually. It does corner like Jesus on rollerblades.

have been concidering the same mod as i have yellow adj. rebound koni's currently, and would like to have an adjustable ride hieght(a little softer springs perhaps, as this is a SPIRITED daily driver). Would you recommend that setup to others?

If someone was setting a car up to be a "street-only" car, I would say don't do it. For that application, just some nice Koni's pared with around 200lb springs up front and lowering the back via eccentric would do wonders for a car without having to mess around with coil-overs or re-indexing/changing the rear torsion bars. A rear sway bar would be a good purchase if the car does not already have one.

Also in the front end department are the A-arm bushings and spring plates. All my rubber is toast and I have been looking at stiffer replacements. Are there any denser rubber bushings out there that are quality? I have looked at the spherical bearing setup and like what I see. Have you guys had any expiriance with these for both a-arm bushings and spring plates? Are there downsides to using these on the street? Keep in mind I am still young and dumb, and don't really mind the stiff ride as far as comfort is concerned. But if noise or vibration is ten fold more as I would expect, I think i might want to find some other high strength solution.

For the A-arms, stock bushings on the point where they connect to the crossmember are a good choice, for the rear connection point the 968 casters are nice because they have less rubber and offer better response (less squirm). For the strut towers bearings/bushings, refreshing with stock would do wonders for the car. A nice upgrade may be the bearing set-up that KLA sells ( www.klaindustries.net )

Last but not least....is the 968 hatch a direct bolt-on replacement? Thanks in advance guys

Yes, the complete hatch from a 968 is a direct bolt onto our cars. But very $$.

Is there a contact number for the Blaszak arms, here in the uk there is little on offer.

http://www.blaszakprecision.com/

[AznDrgn]

Something to consider if you are going to be tracking your car is that some regions do not allow rebuilt arms at all. You would be best off to check the rules for the region you're planning to race in. Also if your current ball joints are shot bad enough for your to really notice the arm is probably not worth rebuilding since the socket is probably quite worn out.

[SlowToady]

I found out about the ball joints because of this annoying ass noise I was hearing that was driving me _insane_, while I had the car on the lift at work I was grabbing on the wheel and noticed it had some play where there shouldn't be any. Dunno if that is what was causing the noise, but I guess I found something else to take care of in any event.

If someone was setting a car up to be a "street-only" car, I would say don't do it. For that application, just some nice Koni's pared with around 200lb springs up front and lowering the back via eccentric would do wonders for a car without having to mess around with coil-overs or re-indexing/changing the rear torsion bars. A rear sway bar would be a good purchase if the car does not already have one.

That's pretty much what I am doing, except with the coil overs in the front. I was thinking about lowering the rear with some Weltmeister springs and adding a rear sway bar (from a 968). The front would also be complimented by a 27mm sway bar, Racing Dynamics strut brace, and the rebuilt control arms. Any thoughts on that, Tifo?

[tifosiman]

Originally posted by SlowToady


That's pretty much what I am doing, except with the coil overs in the front. I was thinking about lowering the rear with some Weltmeister springs and adding a rear sway bar (from a 968). The front would also be complimented by a 27mm sway bar, Racing Dynamics strut brace, and the rebuilt control arms. Any thoughts on that, Tifo?

There are no "weltmeister springs" for the rear. You can lower it in the rear by ~.75 inches or so with the eccentrics on the spring plates. Any more than that and you will need to pull the torsion bars and re-index. Any higher rate in the rear can be accomplished with larger torsion bars or coil-overs. Keep in mind that with coil-overs, one would still need to re-index the rear t-bars or delete them to do it right.

By 968 rear sway, do you mean the 19mm M030? If you go with that, the 27mm front sway should be about perfect. The car should be fairly neutral at that point. The factory match for the 968 M030 rear is a 30mm front sway bar, but IMHO this set up on a lighter 944 sometimes leads to more understeer.

The strut brace is a hotly contested subject. Some feel that they do not add any rigidity unless they are triangulated to the firewall. I have a strut brace, and IMHO it does stiffen up the shock towers a bit and to me adds a little better *perceived" turn in on the car. I have no quantitative testing to back this up. YMMV.

Good luck!

Jeremy