Maxing my acceleration and adding a turbo
 

As you may have seen in the "work in progress thread" , my 944 was in a little bit of a shunt in November. Whilst I hope the bulk of the chassis repairing work to be completed by the end of next week, I'm always on the look out for ways to improove the performance of my car.

Can anyone advise on the best ways to increase the rate of acceleration of my standard early '85 ?

Also - is it at all possible to add a turbo to a non-turbo car, or is this just asking for time/expense/trouble ?

Thanks!

Jon

Oh dear, you best duck and cover, you posted one of the infamous 'how do I turbo my N/A' threads...

Now, that aside, long story short, buy a turbo 944 if you want a turbo. There is much more to it than you would think.

Use the search button at the top of the screen.



There is a HUGE wealth of info on this site. It will save you from certain doom as well.

This topic has been covered over, and over, and over, and over....


BTW - Welcome to the board!

Oooer. You've had this before I take it.

Well never mind about the turbo. How else can I improve the acceleration of my 944?

Also, what is insurance like over in the States? When I get this car back on the road I'll be paying £3500 a year which works out at about $6800 .

Jon

Sheeesh. Mine runs about $600 per year. No full coverage though....that would run me about $1000/yr.


Biggest acceleration boost I saw was with making sure everything was mechanically right....filter and fluid changes, vacuum lines, clean grounds, etc. I also had an exhaust leak(couldnt hear it) that caused my low end to suffer.

Thanks!

$600 a year? Nice. Mine is Third Party only - not even fire and theft.

What about these throttle responce cams that you can get that are supposed to make the pedal to engine ratio linear or something. Any good?

Long story short with performancing modding your N/A - Sell it and buy a turbo. Theres not much in the way you can do to make this car quick. I would be supprised to see the car make it down to the stock times of a Turbo.

Smeg :~(

It's a lovely car.

Perhaps Nitrous is the way. I have been considering this for a while.

$1000/yr insurance daily driver... full comprehensive, glass, etc, no deductable... 50/100 on the bodily injury and vehicle damange, no collision insurance however

RE: Welcome to Pelican!

Turbo charging a non-turbo 944 is an expensive way to get more power.

While it won't add any horsepower, a very cheap and very effective mod is to install an aftermarket throttle cam. It's a $20.00 or so disk that replaces the stock oblong ended throttle cam. It will make your throttle more responsive.

You can also do all the 'aftermarket' stuff like a freer-flowing intake & exhaust, but unless you spend generous amounts of pound sterling, don't expect to reach 944Turbo type performance.

-Z-man.

Jon - man your paying way to much - I paying £440 TPFT no ncb age 22 (well 23 now). Through a classic policy its much cheaper.

search button please, tons of topics on performance upgrades

I'm paying £324 fully comp one year no claims on a 924 through Lancaster insurance, east people to deal with

Hmm, I pay $2200CDN/year, 3rd party liability, and comprehensive with a $250 deductible.

I pay $600 a year. Full coverage, extremely high limits (in the millions). $500 deductibles on comp/collision. Being married and over 25 has its advantages...

Ive read alot on this site in the past year being new to Porsches and all,Ive learned many little ins and outs of my 944 from some very knowledgeable people..However,for the past 10 years Ive built many Mitsu/DSM turbo cars and have alot of experience when it comes to building and tuning them..Why do people here think it is near impossible or not worth doing the 944 N/A to turbo engine swap????The 951 motor is a direct bolt in to the 944 series body correct??Whats so hard about dropping in a 951 turbo motor?Did anyone ever hear of aftermarket EFI systems like SDS ect?If this motor is a direct "bolt in",a good wrench with some tuning skills would have the car running in 2 days..I am just curious because the last time I checked the going rate for a nice 951 it would cost more to buy one than it would to do the swap..

One thing that I have not found too much on, but I know can be done is to swap the final drive. If you have a 1985.5 or later NA you have a 3.889 final drive. If you can find one cheap enough you can swap in a final drive from an older 924 with the 016/9 box, which had a 4.111 final drive. That will give you a little more out of the hole, although its going to make highway driving a little tiring :p

Mark:
Most people don't think about swapping in a whole (and complete) 951 motor - instead, they think they can just slap a turbo on their 944 n/a and voila: 944 turbo! Turbocharging a motor is a lot more complicated than that: there's issues like compression, timing, air flow metering, chip....etc.

But even your 'solution' of swapping in a 951 motor into a 944 n/a body isn't that easy an undertaking. First off, if you are doing this to an early (pre 85.5) model, the front spindles won't match up, as already stated above. Second: the brakes on a 944 n/a won't handle the extra power of a 951 - which is exactly why the factory went with bigger, 4-piston Brembo calipers and larger rotors. Third - there are some other things that don't quite match up like the air intake location, the oil cooler...etc.

And finally: the biggest reason why a 951 motor swap isn't worth it is because by the time you add together all the costs, it is will be more expensive than buying a 951 to start with. 951 prices are beginning to drop under the $10k range. Even if you have a 944 n/a body and a 951 motor, you are better off selling the 944 n/a body and buying a 951 shell.

Just my $0.42,
-Z-man.

951 motor swap has been done, Andy from rennlist....

It was alot of work in the end, but the car is badass. It really makes more since to buy a 951, instead of swapping the motor. I mean its all ready to go.

924 (the one with the 2.0L engine) use a smaller torque tube than 944. They also break. Again, changing the final drive ratio without anything else for the street is not gaining anything. For the more power scenario;buy a 944 Turbo, which will be cheaper and also work. Installing a Turbo engine into a NA 944 is not a five minute job and if you have to pay someone; will end up cheaper to buy a complete and usuable 944T. Early NA 944 can and do break the ring and pinion, and the gear ratios are wrong for the street and for what you intend. Of course, installing a 944T engine in a NA means you intend to drive the car faster so suspension upgrades will also require doing. Again, easiest and most cost effective is to buy a 944T and drive that.

I have already run a 4.11 rear final drive ratio in my 87 924S, got the gear from PowerHouse2 cost me approx $900 with shipping, then I had them installed and my tranny rebuilt, total cost $1600, The different final drive was sweet for back roads, I was alwasy in my powerband, but if you where up on the highway say hello to 4,500rpm all day long. Anyway the new gear ratio didnt last to long, It blew up about 3 weeks later because the guy who installed it setup the pinion depth wrong. Anyway there is a ton of stuff you can do to a NA, just gotta have the time and money

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1106184651.jpg

ahh…so it was replaced under warrantee then…btw, who did the work?

FRWilks chip did wonders for the acceleration, along with a new throttle cam and a good tune up.

Exactly what UconnTim97 said works well for most people who use their cars normally. After that it gets to the "well, I can't drive it now because it broke again" phase.

Hey thanks for all the info. I don't think I'll bother even attemping a turbo upgrade there then.

Presumably getting one of this chip systems, or a drive computer, replaces the dist cap with a digitaly controlled ignition system?

Cheers,

Jon

Oh about my insurance - it's £3500 a year Third Party only. I am 18 though and this car is category 20 in the insurance groups. By the way - why on earth does having a wife lower your insurance premium?

Oh one other thing - I don't want to drive faster - I want the car to accelerate faster - i.e reduce the 0-6 time.

Thanks,

Jon

Jon run a quote with these guys below or call them I'm with one of the two can't remember which. Getting your car on a classic policy will significantly reduce the price also if you limit the milage say to under 10k or even 7k a year. Almost all years of the 944 classify for classic insurance now. Going to a normal insurer is the worst because as you say the car is group 20 its a Porsche and your 18 not a good combination in the eyes of the insurers!


Lancaster Car Ins


Heritage Car Ins

Let's not forget that swapping in a 951 motor will require a 951 transmission. The 944 transmission is not up to the task.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1106235038.jpg

Nuff Said.

Because depressed, overburden, broken down, nagged to death husbands don't drive as fast as wreckless, adrenaline pumping, show-off, still full of life men.

In other words, we get beat down and aren't as risky.

I doubt whether installing another ignition system will really change acceleration performance. 944 models were not designed for 0-60 times (as was the case of most Porsches) but crusing at high speeds, excellent handling and the ability to be used competitively at the race track. If you want to work on the 0-60 times, then basically you need another car.

Registry Editor,
1) FRWilk PowerProm 2 chip - BY FAR the best performance increase I have done. Smooths out torque curve and gives a noticeable increase in accelleration.

2) Suspension/Brakes - The faster you can stop and the faster you can take corners, the faster your car will be

3) Lighter=faster - my next course of action

4) DE events

Carsontc- Thats the big problem, The guy who installed the gears "Smith Brothers Transmisions" Says the gear was made bad so I sent pics to the gear guy and he said it was setup wrong and back and forth we went for weeks so then I just gave up and took it from behind like a man. But at least the gear guy "PH2" said since I went threw soo much BS that he would give me the next set at there cost but I never went for it and now Im running a tranny from a 85.5 944 in my 87 924S

what is a DE event?

Driver's education

PCA holds a handful of Driver's Education events every year at area racetracks - Lime Rock, Pocono, etc. - and what you do is tackle the track with an instructor riding with you. A lot of people claim they have had no idea what their car can do until they took it to a DE.

I have yet to do one

funny how you guys think inside the box ONLY
one of my other cars is a volvo 245turbo wagon [miniSUV]
and volvo guys add turbos to n/a motors without a care
and the fastest ones are the N/A +turbo motors
yes they need an intercooler [bigger the better]
and tuning and tricks like a megasquirt box {aftermarket custom CPU} added
but they have a canDO and lets try IT mindset
that is lacking here

yes but thinking within the box again.... we're not talking about volvo's we're talking about '44s and unless you want a boneshaker that will cook its brakes on the first bend then the components and money needed to make the project successful outweigh putting up with your n/a (which with the various mod's summarised by fusco is pretty good) for a bit longer and saving a few more cents for the real thing!

True some people do modify Volvos, no reason not to..maybe that's because there are more a then a few parts available..why is that? it's a bigger market and the engine as installed has potential for fairly large power gains at reasonable cost. Of course, you then have to modify the suspension, gear or final drive ratios and brakes to actually use that power but it can be done. And then how many times do they actually use all that power?

The 944 market is different, otherwise there would be more advertisers in Pelican and elsewhere on the web offering all sorts of parts. But there isn't. One of the reasons; if you want a fast 944, buy a 944 Turbo. For modifying NA models, most owners either aren't prepared or don't have the money to spend. Yes, you can buy some parts and install them yourself, not a problem. Don't seem to see to many "this is fantastic" posts about anything apart from FR Wilks chip.

944s are great cars, they handle, brake and generally work very well and that's what they were designed to do. But the range also includes faster models as the years went on.

Thinking outside the box is such a well-worn phrase that it doesn't mean anything. Yes, one can easily think about changing a 944, but then reality sets in and to radically change the car involves changing lots of parts, and not that many people want to do that.