Can't rid of engine pinging with Wilk's PowerProm 2, NEED HELP!
 

First off, this isn't at all a post bashing Wilk's PowerProm, I love it I'm just having issues fully enjoying it. Here's the deal. I bought the chip a while back, sort of a long while back... and before installing it I did what FR suggested. I had the engine fully checked since the O2 Sensor would mask engine issues that would suddenly arise later with the chip. The car was already in great shape, GREAT. Serviced regularly and even serviced when it didn't need to be, just to keep it up. Relacing this and that. Point is was doing better than great and I had it completely checked before installing the chip. OK now that I got that over with, here is the problem:

In stock mode (PowerProm 2), I ran just fine and it was actually a smoother run that with the stock chip. In performance mode, DAMN it was cool, sounded nice, ran nice but if I actually drove it like a Porsche and not like a Chevy Cavelier it started to ping like crazy so I would let off. It was a bad tease over and over again. Ready....set.... goooooo - uh no. I checked everything, tried everything. Lower octane gas, higher octane gas and then FR suggested that I adjust the FQS to -3, even though if it wasn't octane I would have thought to do the reverse, maybe +3 thinking it wasn't getting enough gas. In any case I need a fix. I haven't been able to use the darn thing since I got it and I've been trouble shooting this issue for the past year.

Here are a couple side items I tried messing with since I've exhausted engine checks, item replacements (sensors, senders, hoses etc). I tried using 87, 89, 93 octane gas. Runs better on the 93, much better, (the car came set for a minimum of 91 octane, gas cap says use 91 RON Unleaded, and I believe the PowerProm was set to 89?) I tried using better plugs. From the standard copper, to the Bosch +2 Titanium and the newer Bosch +4 Iridium. I tried retarding the fuel mixture by -3 as suggested by Wilk. Nothing.

What's the problem? What's the fix? Anyone having issues as well? What can I do?
FR, any thoughts?

It's an 88 Porsche 944 NA, all stock restoration project.
All help and suggestions genuinely and greatly appreciated. Thanks :)

You have 10.2:1 compression motor, not the 9.5:1 compression that all of the 86 and earlier 944's have. I think (could be wrong) that Wilk's chip is to hot for you.

Just my $.02.

Re: Can't rid of engine pinging with Wilk's PowerProm 2, NEED HELP!
 

You have the high compression NA engine ! The spark advance curve in the performance mode maybe too radical for the higher compression of this NA engine.

Try running:
1) strong fuel injector cleaner to clean injectors so the spray pattern is "fan shaped" and to cleanup deposits in the combustion chambers.

2) using spark plugs with a colder heat range.

3) make sure fuel pressure is good and consistant.

4) octane booster.


I hope that helps.

But I purchased the PowerProm 2 created for the 1988 944 NA..... FR would have made adjustments for the compression difference. I did try injector cleaners for a few months. About three months ago I bought new ones. Engine ran incredibly better with brand new injectors but it didnt do anything for the pinging in performance mode. I checked the pressure and the dampners when I did the injectors. I thought about the octane booster idea as well this morning. Thanks for that. But something bothers me about adding an octane booster intoo one of our cars. Come on.... its a Porsche, octane booster? Thats what I was telling myself. But could our 944s actually benifit from those? And which brand is best? Concerning the spark plugs, interesting. But I dont follow exactly. How do I know what plugs have a colder heat range? And what does that do? Thanks.

Slight Update / More Info:

Oh, I took it out at lunch and drove it to speed gradually without giving it much gas. Really about 2/3 the amount we would depress the accelerator at any given time / gear. No ping. But thats lame. I got there, but its like doing 0-60 in 20 seconds. I cant drive this sweet ride that! But does that tell you anything? Not enough gas for the spark, or not enough spark for the gas, or what? I didnt look exactly but eyeballing it seemed like anything over 3200 RPM would ping. If I act like grandpa Sunday driving on a local road...then alls good.

Calling FR Wilk..... Any chance this chips a lemon (hee hee) or accidently sent me the wrong one? Come on bud talk to me :)

Cheers.

Try adding a gallon of xylene ($7 at home depot) to raise your 93-octane tank to 96-octane and see how it works. Your injector wiring may be corroded as well, leading to a single cylinder running lean. Here's how to test the injector harness:


Here's another test for the injector connectors, lets you track which one, or more is bad. The 1st set of tests checks for proper operation of the +12v power line to the injectors and the 2nd continuity tests check for the condition of the ground (activation) wires on the injector harness.

1. disconnect DME
2. disconnect idle-stabilizer, CV-cycling valve
3. disconnect all injector connectors, be careful to remove the spring-clip first, then pull on the connector, don't pull on loop of wire.

POWER-LINE TEST

4. using battery-ground as ground, use a voltmeter to check for +12v on each pin of injector connector
5. all rearward pins should have +12v
6. all forward pins should have ZERO volts
7. if you have ANY voltage on the forward pin, then you've got a short in that connector.

GROUND LINE TEST

8. Also check ground pairs (forward pin)
9. set voltmeter to ohms and check continuity between forward pins of injector #1 & #2: should read zero ohms (connected)
10. check between forward pins of injector #3 & #4: should read zero ohms (connected)
11. check between forward pins of injector #1 & #3: should read infinite ohm s (not connected)
12 check between forward pins of injector #2 & #4:should read infinite ohms (not connected)

First try E-mailing FR, Im sure he is more then willing to help you out, I would stay at 93 octane and switch back the fuel control switch on the DME, if it still pings try adding octane booster until the ping stops. Also what does the temp on you P-car run at?? How is the cooling system, Whats the weather like??? You may be running to hot. Are there any other mods done to the car??? Also are you sure its pinging???

Thanks to all who have made suggestions thus far, Appreciated. And thanks DannoXYZ for the test procedure. I'll give that a try tomorrow afternoon. Whats Xylene? Scared to add a Home Depot product into my car. Details? Fast 924S, the cars temp is good. Doesnt sit on a marker but it sits around 9 O'Clock usually and then around say 10 after running for a while. Doesn't touch the next marker at 11 O'Clock. She gets Phosphate free 50/50 mix. Yes its pinging. I thought maybe it was something else when I first installed the chip, so I started checking everything I could then I took in to a friends shop. Confirmed, it's pinging. (The ol' jar of BB's pouring over a tin roof sound) Concerning temp, it does so anywhere on the temp scale. Warm or hot ....give it gas, she pings. No mods to the car except for Wilks Chip. Everything is stock. Everything I've replaced is stock. I've painfully been trying to keep her true to her colours over the years. The weather, Ha! Atlanta is called Hotlanta for a reason. This state is usually hotter than h*ll, and humid. But right now its sunny and around 82, then rainy and 65-73 the next day. Back and forth. It's our Seattle season. Where you thinking of something else if it wasnt pinging?

Reason why I asked about the weather is beacues it can effect engines performance. I wasnt really thingking of anything else, I just wanted to make sure the facts are correct so I can brain storm better. When you switched the FQS back what type of fuel where you running??? HOw long did you run it like this?? Have you heard from FR yet??

"Whats Xylene? Scared to add a Home Depot product into my car. Details? F"

Check out the FUEL FAQ section on my 951 RacerX website. Basically you're adding a 117-octane hydrocarbon to your gas and get the weighted-average increase in octane. The other additive toluene is widely used by the refineries to boost-octane and it's actually a major component in race-gas. However, toulene is harder to get in volume and it's only 114-octane vs. xylene's 117. Basically by adding toluene to your gas, you're making your gas more similar to the European brew.

Wow, didn't know a thing about that. Very cool, and thanks so much for the link. (Am checking it out) I emailed FR Wilk right after installing it, he asked if I had checked the car out as he asked we do before installing his chip. I did. Later he said to adjust the FQS to position 2 (-3 Fuel). I emailed him again several months later but nothing. Thats was about the time when he dropped off the map. Glad he's back but anyone know what happened to him? Anywho I emailed him just last week mentioning I had the issues still, he said adjust the FQS to -3. Unfortunetly I didnt get more than that. :(

His computer crashed and he was working on other stuff (see the thread about his new goodies), so it took a while for him to fix it.

Have you taken a look into the spark plug hole with a flashlight? Is your piston and combustion chamber crudded up with carbon? That will both increase your effective compression ratio, and it will create hot-spots for pre-ignition (pinging)

Also, was your head ever surfaced? Porsche heads have VERY little extra material for surfacing. if the shop too off too much, that will raise your compression ratio very quickly. If it was surfaced properly, was the thicker head gasket used at reassembly?

Also, is your car an S? I believe the S's have knock sensors (i'm not sure though) Are they connected and functioning properly? There's a test procedure in the manual. It involves running the engine at idle, and tapping on the sensor retaining bolt with a small hammer, and see if the idle speed changes.

Mike944 : No I haven't done that but about three months ago I purchased an engine reseal kit. Had the head cleaned at that time, not resurfaced. Just cleaned and checked. All was fine. And at time of reassembly everything was cleans and spotless. All I would expect to find in there now is crud from all the pre-ignition. My P-car is an NA.

Pokey : Glad to hear FR Wilk didnt dissapear for anything major.

DannoXYZ : Very nice site! Tons of info. One guys remarks said he put two gallons of Toulene in his car and next was going to try three. Wow! How much Toulene or Xylene have you dared put in your car safely and without damage?

There's no safety or damage issue with toluene or xylene as it's a more stable aromatic hydrocarbon tahn most components of gasoline. If you look at the %-composition of aromatics, the Europeans have about 10% more than us. That comes out to about 2-gallons per tank.

Both toluene and xylene have higher densities than gasoline, so you end up with richer mixtures if you add significant amounts. This is not necessarily a bad thing as a richer mixtures tend to be less detonation-prone. However, significant amounts of tolueen, like the 80% mixture that the Honda/McLaren team was running in their late '80s 1.5L 1000bhp+ F1 cars, required heating it up to 140-F in order to aid vaporization and fuel-economy. I figured adding up to 4-gallons per tank of 91-octane pump-gas to yield 96-octane should be fine.

Not sure if that would really help in your case, because you shouldn't be at the limit of compression or octane with your configuration. I still suspect that one or more of your injector wires is corroded, giving you a lean cylinder or two. Simple quick way to test is to pull all the plugs and see if they're all evenly the same color, or maybe one of them is really white, which would indicate a lean mixture.

That head job is a clue as well. About 20% of the people who upgrade their injectors ends up with bad injector wiring due to the age and crispiness of the wires.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW: Note that aromatics are NOT alcohols, which are straight-chained hydrocarbons with an -OH at the end. This makes the alcohol a polar compound with excellent solvent capabilities in leeching the oils out of your rubber hoses and stuff. That's why alcohols are limited to less than 10% in all gasolines.

Thanks again for that suggestion and for the thorough post reply. I'll check the plugs tomorrow and let yo uknow what I find, as well as what the injector lines turn up. However the reseal/head job/replaced injectors was all done after the pinging issue came up. (Which happened the moment I installed FR's chip) I will look into both these suggestions though and report back my findings. I stopped by Sherwin Williams at lunch today btw and they didnt have Toulene or Xylene. I'll try lloking at Lowes or Home Deopt later in the week. They gave me a funny look though when I walked in asking for Toulene, Maybe they put two and two together! I pulled up in a friends 951 and my brother tagged along in his Elise. Makes me think they might of had it but didnt want to fork it over :) lol
I'll try sending FR an email later this evening as well to see if he has any more insight to offer on his end. Thanks again.

Heh, heh...must be Homeland Security putting pressure on Sherwin Wiliams and Home Depot. I picked up a couple gallons of xylene last week at HD, but they no longer carry the gallon cans of toluene, just tiny pint sizes. Toluene can be used to make TNT- TriNitroToluene and is also used for meth and crack production.

Do you still have the stock chip? Try that and see if you still have the pinging issue. That would immediately pinpoint or clear the Wilk chip as being the problem...

hmm, this sounds a little familiar. i had quite a bit of "pinging", not long after installing my dual chip. cut a long story short, my problem was that the eng temp sensor, and the air temp sensor in the dme went south, way far south, and after replacing these items, all was restored. i believe that your car has a "knock" sensor, so it wont be the same for you. i was thinking about the head all carboned up too, but you have addressed this. sounds like danno may have the answer, but it will be something that is out of spec, that is preventing you from enjoying the full benefits. its just a bugger, finding it, right !
keep going, you will get there !
regards, bob.

No knock-sensor until the 944S with the later Motronic boxes. The KLR computer in the 951 is what monitors the knock-sensing and ignition-retard. But looking at the shear numbers of 951s that have had blown-headgaskets, you can be asurred that the algorithm doesn't work very well... :(

Thanks all,..... Danno & Bob,

Funny isn't it! I think I might drive around shop to shop during the week and get all I can, if I can, before my name appears in a deck of cards. lol. I do have the stock chip, GREAT IDEA. (duh) Although like I said it didnt get ping until installing Wilks chip like bigyagi.

Ok let me get this all in order:
1. Reinstall stock chip to check if in fact it's Wilks chip or not. (ping or no ping)
2. Check spark plugs for signs of injector issue / wiring issues. Check wiring to injectors.
3. Replace engine temp sensor, either for a fix or just for *****s and giggles. Can't hurt.
4. Replace air temp sensor in the DME, either for a fix or just for *****s and giggles. Can't hurt. (I'm hitting a brain fart) am I missing something? Air temp sensor in the DME itself or are you referring to the sensor in the AFS? Cant replace that can you? Just the entire AFS. Remind me or inform me if you dont mind. I'm confused as to the part you are referring to.

I dont think I'll be able to get to it all until this weekend. late nights at work this week, unless I can get a day off. We'll see. If you get a new thought lemme know. Otherwise I'll address this all between now and Sunday and get back to all.

Thank you VERY VERY much!

the eng temp sens is a doddle to replace, but you are correct, if the air temp sens is done, then its a new afm. unless you can do magic tricks, or are extremely blessed with dexterity! if you go to clarks garage, under sensors, you will find all the info on the sensors, like resistance etc. i believe that for the eng temp, and the air temp sens, the range is the same. the mean range is between 1.45 k, and 3.3k. you can check at various ambient air temperatures, but if they are outside these figures, especially on the low side, then this will cause a lean condition, and "pinging". for example, my eng temp sens, was 0.92k, and the air temp sens was 0.62k. mega well outside the range. replaced, and big broad smile again. i did have slight "pinging"b4 i installed the dual chip, but because of the advance/fuel map, it really brought the message home that something was up. i drive like an old fart most of the time, so the "pinging" was never an issue.
hope this helps, even if only so you can check your readings, and cross off another item.
regards, bob.

Toluene and Xylene are safe for your car, but probably aren't as safe for people. These are potent solvents, and you don't want to be breathing them in if possible. You might want to check EPA or OSHA website for safe handling/exposure guidelines if you're going to be handling this stuff on a regular basis. Probably the simplest common-sense thing to remember is to try not to let the fumes build in a closed environment -- lots of fresh air, etc.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/toluene/recognition.html#healthhazard

2. Effects on Humans: Toluene is a central nervous system depressant and an irritant of the eyes, mucous membranes, and skin in humans. In contact with the eyes, toluene causes reversible corneal injury; prolonged skin contact causes defatting and dermatitis [Hathaway, Proctor, Hughes, and Fischman 1991, p. 546]. Volunteers exposed to a 200-ppm concentration of toluene for 8 hours experienced mild upper respiratory tract irritation; at 400 ppm, subjects experienced mild eye irritation and tearing and laughed inappropriately; at 600 ppm, the volunteers developed slight nausea and lassitude; and at 800 ppm, they experienced drowsiness, incoordination, and a metallic taste in the mouth [Clayton and Clayton 1981-1982, p. 3283; Hathaway, Proctor, Hughes, and Fischman 1991, p. 546]. Some volunteers exposed to a 100-ppm concentration of toluene for 6 hours reported eye and nose irritation, and some reported headache and dizziness [Hathaway, Proctor, Hughes, and Fischman 1991, p. 546]. An employee exposed to very high (concentration not specified) levels of toluene for 18 hours collapsed and lost consciousness; this individual showed clinical signs of liver and kidney damage but later recovered [Clayton and Clayton 1981-1982, p. 3285]. Painters exposed repeatedly to toluene at concentrations between 100 and 1100 ppm developed enlarged livers, macrocytosis, a moderate decrease in erythrocyte count, and lymphocytosis, but showed no signs of leukopenia [ACGIH 1986, p. 578]. Studies of workers chronically exposed to toluene or mixtures of solvents containing toluene have shown minor abnormalities in neuropsychological test results and decrements in performance, although a recent study of rotogravure printers exposed to an average toluene concentration of 117 ppm for approximately 22 years detected no significant neurophysiologic or psychological differences compared with these parameters in controls [Hathaway, Proctor, Hughes, and Fischman 1991, p. 546].

* Signs and symptoms of exposure

1. Acute exposure: The signs and symptoms of acute exposure to toluene include redness and inflammation of the eyes and eyelids, runny nose, scratchy throat, fatigue, weakness, incoordination, confusion, headache, dizziness, and drowsiness.

2. Chronic exposure: The signs and symptoms of chronic exposure to toluene include incoordination; tremors; impaired speech, vision, hearing, or memory; nausea; lack of appetite; and defatting of the skin.

[...]

and so on. In short, it's a neurotoxin. Common-sense applies.

-Mark

One other thing: you really don't want to keep driving car your while it's pinging. That pinging sound is your engine being destroyed!

-Mark

stay away from the platinum plugs..they arent good unless you want to change your plugs every 100k miles. I have regular NGK copper plugs in my car..ive used them in every turbo or N/A car Ive had, and theyve always been the best. Platinum tends to be poor at getting the heat out, and it turns itself into a glow plug, which starts to cause detonation.

It's been a while but if I recall correctly the numbers on the plug indicate the heat range, ie. Lower number = colder plug.

IMO, I would start with the recommended plug in the owners manual and source the same type with a lower rating. Plugs are not expensive and can be gapped and installed in minutes.

On another note, I suggested the fuel injector cleaner in my earlier post as I suspect that your car may be running lean or have a fuel injection problem to cause the detonation, Danno may be correct about the injectors. I would follow his suggestion and pull the plugs to see if they are all the same. Spark Plugs are the best indicators to tell you how the car is running.

Ding, Ding, Ding! (Thats a bell, LOL)
 

I managed to take the day off of work yesterday and met up with a few friends (only one of which was on the dark side, 911 driver not a 944) We opened our DME's up (Same model / year / DME) to perform my little chip test and let me tell you I was excited. (Oh and disclaimer, 911 driver was there as a spectator, obviously his chip wasn't being used.) I had a Weltmiester Chip, a PowerChip, a 944 Online Chip, my Porsche Stock Chip, and my F.R. Wilk PowerProm 2. I tried each one out (no dyno tests here, just based on ignition, tone, advance, RPMs, drive-ability etc. But, a good comparison none the less.) I found out some good news and some bad news. First off, I rate my experience in this order (actually "we" do since we made a general consensus of our results) worst to best. Porsche Stock Chip (hey its still fly, good solid chip but changes could have been made), 944 Online Chip (improvement), PowerChip (better), Weltmiester Chip (more so, but hard to explain other than saying it felt better / smoother not forced), and then F.R.Wilks PowerProm 2 (like a wild untamed animal but needed a dad of discipline). The F.R. Wilk PowerProm blew them away....HOWEVER, I think something is miscoded or not properly calculated, something. Possibly by accident. Maybe my chip is damaged or a lemon. (I'll contact Wilk and see what he can do for me, he's a good guy right?) I removed the PowerProm and installed the Porsche Stock Chip. No pinging, nothing AT ALL as a matter of fact. She ran smooth. Every chip that followed, nothing. When I got back to the PowerProm, pinging and at high RPM's yesterday I also discovered some other scary engine noise, needless to say I took that out of the test comparison later!) Then we tiered the test, Stock, PowerProm, PowerChip, PowerProm and so on. I spent almost 3 1/2 - 4 hours swapping chips and driving. The PowerProm is doing something very uncool to my engine / DME. Something's out of whack. Now hold on, and read the very first paragraph of this thread. I'm not bashing Wilk. - Don't go there. And it did show to be the absolute best chip out of the ones we tested and compared. I just cant use it. I ended up reinstalling my Stock Chip at the end of the day.

I ran out of time to check the AFM, plugs or injectors but since they seem to be fine I think its all good to leave that until Sunday morning! I will check them anyways to clear them off the list as well. Thanks again for those great suggestions.

I also have an addition to this thread if you don't mind tossing this around. My friend Dave thought it easier to have me ask than to register and ask himself. Go figure, it's not hard. (he wasn't the one that pulled up in a 911 but he does own a Targa as well. He left it at home, very wise Dave...very wise)

OK, here's what Dave has going on. Sounds like water pouring into the glove box. The "water" gets louder and instead of pouring sounds like Niagara Falls when you accelerate (thanks to the water pump). I thought Heater Core. Looked up a thread or two here but didn't find anything that helped too much. There is No water under the car, inn the car, all mats are dry and haven't ever been wet. Pulled the mats back from the floor wells, no signs of anything. Checked the bell housing, dry and no signs of evaporated coolant. Checked the piped going through the firewall dry, no drops, no water. Checked them on the engine side...no drops, no water, no leaks or bad hoses. The Heater Valve Switch though (and I don't at all know much about this little guy) seemed to never open. It was in AUF (off) the entire time. Heat on or off, every variable I could think off. It never opened. I don't know if the vacuum isn't working or has a leak or if the Valve simply failed. Anyone know much about it? Can his car run like that until he fixes it or should he stop running it. Is water leaking and evaporating or is the sound maybe oxygenated water trying to move somewhere. Or water unable to get out or in and boiling over at a given area making that hellish sound? Before we wrapped up lastnight I held his Valve in the open position out in the driveway and he said he couldn't hear the water anymore. I didn't get a chance to hear for myself but is that was the case then it got to be the vacuum or the Valve that's bad. Comments, suggestions, information on the workings of the heater valve etc. All that would help...Dave greatly appreciates it and so do I. Thanks everyone!

Thanks for the posts regarding the dangers of Toulene and Xylene. I'm still looking for that potent additive and do plan to use it very moderately. I researched it for a while after checking out his great website. Lots of cautions out there regarding the stuff! Thanks for the suggestion and the concern :)

I'm also going to switch out the plugs on Sunday, thanks for that.

Cheers, and have a great weekend!

Doesn't your car have a knock sensor? If you are hearing pinging from your car, you knock sensor should be too, so why isn't your DME retarding spark?

1988 Porsche 944 NA's didn't come with knock sensors.

But on that note while Wilk had me adjust the fuel mixture via the FQS to -3, I also tried the same with ingition -2.77 to see if retarding the timing would help. And uh...no not really! But since the pinging was an issue that only happened using Wilks chip and not the stock chip or any other I was able to get my hands on for a few hours, it no longer needs messing with. Even so if retarding it to -2.77 via the FQS would have fixed the issue with Wilks chip I would have rather not and installed a chip that worked and didnt need altering to make work. Feel my pain? After all the messing with my engine to fix something I thought was wrong with my car, and turn out its the chip after all....Urgh! All this time I've been replacing stuff, testing stuff, and so on, to make this chip work in my car properly and all along my car was fine. But hey, I got a head start on restoring, updating and future upkeeping. I spent a lot of hard earned money on parts I didnt need to even concider touching yet or ever (knock on wood). I'm trying to think positive here. I'm going to try and give it another try. I still think somethings out of whack on my chip specificly. If I can get another PowerProm2 from Wilk I'll try it out and hope for the best. I don't think this is something he would have miscoded or overlooked. But if something is funky with the PowerProm I'll just forget about it and stay stock. Somethings wrong with this PowerProm 2 chip though.

Before you draw this conclusion, maybe someone on the board with a '88 NA can test the chip for you. I'm sure there must be someone around that would like to give it a go... volunteers please.

I'm kinda curious though, during your testing of the chips why didn't you put the Power Prom2 in one of your buddies '88 NA to test it, this would surely validate if it was the chip or something with the car. You did use chips from other '88 944 NA did you not???

If NOT then the test was inconclusive. I don't think FR Wilk would be obliged to send out another chip without better proof.

Re: Can't rid of engine pinging with Wilk's PowerProm 2, NEED HELP!
 

Paitken76, are you being straight with us???

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/210830-milkshake-what-mess-how-should-i-clean-up.html

According to some of your previous post your car had issues. I think serious engine issues (milkshake) that would go against FR Wilks suggestion of installing the chip in a healthy engine. If your head was machined as was mentioned in 2 of your posts then the effective compression would be higher than the chip was designed for and there may NOT be any straight forward resolution to your problem except to use octane booster, Toulene / Xylene or racing gas. If this is the case then that would explain why FR Wilk has not responded.

I believe this is my final reply to this Post!

Oh brother what a pain in my ars. First... YES I've been straight. Second, I had the chip long before the Milkshake. That's like saying once you install Wilk's chip your car will no linger be 17 years old, aging and in need of upkeep. Or like installing the chip and a month later having any given car problem what so ever and getting b*itched at for having installed a chip in to a perfectly good car that had a problem later. What, you think its a Porsche fountain of youth? I didn't argue about Wilk's chip as a cause for Milkshake (turned out bad Oil Cooler seals), the bad and over priced oil change the I last got at the dealer or the tires I recently replaced for being close to bald, did I. The issue was the ping that I had only since installing the chip, since just after being on the forum and since mentioning so and then tagging my posts with Wilks PowerProm 2. Long before any wear and tear or general maintenance as later mentioned on the Forum. Also I had the head cleaned when I did the reseal kit, Not machined (resurfaced) just cleaned. And finally if that was a valid case I would have had problems with all the other chips as well, engine wise and everywhere else it falls into the equation. But I don't. I appreciate you added suggestions and posts to this thread and if you so desire to not respond to it again. OK, do what you gotta do bud. And sorry to hear that.

OK, MLue.... no insult or harm intended. I admit my tone is a bit rash. I'm having a very bust day at work, not going to well with clients either and well I'm taking ti out on you. Sorry! All & all, its all good. Enjoy your weekend.-

"If NOT then the test was inconclusive. I don't think FR Wilk would be obliged to send out another chip without better proof."

Yikes. Down boy, down. But partly, yes...point taken. However I wasn't justifying the value of Wilks chip over another etc etc. Or validating the chip in whole, for that matter. Just merely whether the pinging was being caused by the chip or not. Not to mention like I said I don't think this is a problem I'd believe to be in all PowerProms Wilks makes. I think something's wrong with THIS chip. This wasn't a test of chips for one if those "Which Chip is best threads" or any other related thread that turns into 400 people rambling on and on about this and that running in circles with absolutely no conclusion at the end. This is entirely about MY CAR, the pinging in MY CAR, and MY PowerProm 2 chip. Not About Wilk, not about his products, not about the PowerProm 2 he creates and sells. Its about my car and the one I bought. That's it. The test wasn't inconclusive at all it just could have been better. It's not something I had planned to do and I barely got done with what I did before we had to call it a day. But yes, if I had the time to put the chip in everyone else's car and see if it pinged in theirs then that surely would be better if I was trying to make an argument to get my money back or something but I'm not. I was concerned with MY car and the pinging. (pinging = much bigger problems than "writing off $200 as malspent) I could be less concerned about the chip being bad. I'm just happy my pinging problem has been resolved COMPLETELY. It showed to only exist while using Wilks chip, not Stock or any other on hand. Pinging is long gone. Problem solved, the chip is a mystery. If I can I'll pop it into one or two of the other 88 944's and see if it pings in theirs. Then what? I'll know that the chip wasn't just a problem in my car but is in theirs too? So? I still have a bad chip. I was now just going to mail it back to Wilk and have him take a look at it in good faith. If something is wrong with it I don't see him having a problem with replacing it. He stands behind his products. If it's fine he'll sent it back and say "sorry, it turned out OK" and that's that. No harm, no foul. I'll shelf it, sell it or toss it. Or I might find it to be more trouble than it's worth and toss it now.

Read: This wasn't about the chip. It was about the pinging in my car while using the chip. Pinging's gone. Chip is out. And purely because I could, for *****s and giggles, I also tried other chips to see (something with modifications like Wilks chip, over the stock chip) and they did not replicate the pinging. Concerning the intent of the thread, my Pinging, case closed. I'm not getting into the world of lets discus Wilks chip and what mine is doing wrong. I'm just curious about that. Nothing more. Now I'm contemplating if it's even worth the trouble. :( Likely not.

Well, Not to cause more problems, But before you blam it on the chip, take some time and try it in another 944 of the same year with the same GAS just to be sure. One of the reason the PP2 is soo good is because of the advanced ignition curve is perfect for power. Some of ther other chips may not have the same ignition advance. You say you have only had the head cleaned, did you have them take some measurments?? What if a PO before you had head work done on the car, you would never know if the head was shaved.

I totally understand that its about your chip in your car and you are totally handling it very well and not bashing or anything and that is very respectful and Im sure FR-wilk will be able to work with you.

Anyway just my .2 cents and good luck with the p-car

yes, i agree with the other guys. i would put the chipped dme in a friends car, and see if the same results happen. i have a spare dme {standard}, and would have been happy to give you my chipped dme, to try out, but your car is a later model.
the major thing about fitting this chip, is that you must have no engine issues, or bad sensors/afm etc. even b4 fitting my chip , i did have some slight "pinging", but as it was slight, i ignored it. also, it only occurred, when the engine was good, and stinkin' hot. however, as fast 924s says, the advance is really hot, along with re-mapped fuel curve, and boy oh boy, did i really notice detonation then! as i say, it turned out that my eng sens, and especially the air temp sens in the afm that had gone south. as soon as i replaced them, i was off to the races !!
on a secondary note, i'm glad to see yet another "test", by an owner, that basically vindicates what i, and several others have been saying. this is a great upgrade for the n/a.
please stick with it, and do go back and check all your sensors, and the injection system etc. i can assure you, that it will be very worthwhile!
good luck, bob.

Yeah 16 months and all that time I've been reading posts to the forum about the chip, about pinging and anything else I could think of that was preventing me from enjoying this PowerProm (kudos and thanks to the forum for being a truly great resource). Pinging however continued. I while yes I only emailed the man twice, it was becuase I didnt want to bother him and I was trying to do my part and attempt to solve the problem first. Obviously I had been trying to do so for quite sometime before nearly giving up and deciding to ask Wilk for redirection. Now I must aplologize. He gave it to me but in my confusion it sounded like he gave me back the answer I believed he had given me before which stumped me. This is what I wrote Wilk last (Lotus Notes hanged onto this one) And yes I don't know the man, but as a long time and revered member of this forum whos posting I've enjoyed, and a mann who brings us great products like the new MAF at competetive prices... I didnt want to trouble the guy. I cant be cornered for that can I? I was paying respect.

From: Philip Aitken
To: PowerPROM@frwilk.com
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:28 AM
Subject: A few questions for you FR Wilk, PLEASE :)

Good morning FR. Wilk,
I purchased a PowerProm from you a while back and found that I have a bit of pinging occurring at around 3500 RPM, I emailed you about it and you kindly responded but I seemed to have misplaced that email! So sorry to be asking again... but if I remember correctly you said that I should take out the DME and adjust the Fuel Quality Switch to read -3. Is this correct?
What causes the pinging exactly, over performance due to fuel...too much "pop"?
Should I reduce the fuel ratio to -3, or simply drop to the lower 89 octane gas?
Will either defeat the purchase of the PowerProm and make me lose any performance?

And he wrote back:

Try -3° for advance of FQS switch.

I misread. I asked if it was -3 / fuel and he wrote back -3 / advance. In my frustration I must have overlooked the advance portion of that email, and rolled ahead again with the -3. My bad & I am very sorry, Wilk, forum members and yes to you too mlue for letting a bad day at work get the best of me. No harm intended. And thank you all for your feedback and suggestions.

So, today I'm putting the PowerProm abckk in and adjusting the FQS to Position 4, (-3 advance) and hope that does the trick. If not, please dont be upset with me when I come backk asking you to toss aroud a few ideas. Hopefully it will though and I can lay this post to rest.

Again, I am sorry about the mix up, the headache and the frustration. All of your responces are always very meaningful to me, I appreciate it and this forum (all of you and your posts, threads, isues etc. ) is an incredibly valuable asset.

Please enjoy your weekend & I'll report my findings. Thanks and, sorry Wilk.

Its actually the other way around. Higher the number the colder the plug. For example, On Mitsu's I use NGK BPR6ES. That is stock.

Colder plug would be a BPR7ES. Most of the time, 1 heat range colder solves pinging problems.

You have an engine knock and you are going to reduce the octane rating of the gas? OMG!

Run 93 and adjust the timming advance per fr-wilks instructions

Pinging with FR Wilk chip
 

G'day,

if you have already solved this please pass it on to others particularly ROW car owners.

I have had the same problem and working with Mr Wilk have solved it. I have an Australian 85/1 (Euro/ROW) car with the 10.65 compression/ 163hp. A couple of years ago I ordered an 85/2 DME/AFM set so I could chip the DME.

The supplier inadvertently sent me the US/CAN DME for cars with the lower power/ compression ratio. When I installed the chip which was the correct ROW one the car went like scalded cat but pinged like crazy.

This has been driving me nuts as I have been playing with the FQS to adjust timing and mixture but to no avail.

Finally today I checked the DME again (there was no Bosch label on it) and saw that faintly inscribed on the plug housing was 058 which is the DME code for a US/CAN car.

So... if you have a high comp car or a EURO/ROW car make sure you have the right DME. The numbers end in 057 for an 85.5 or 076 for an 86-87.

Otherwise the DME can't schedule enough fuel to meet the extra demands of the engine and the advance timing will be wrong and you will; ping away until you put a hole in a piston...

As a footnote though, I can't wait until I get this sorted because the Wilk Race chip made such a difference to the car I don't like driving it with the stock DME any more...

No 'magic power gain' but the driveability is off the charts. Absolutely brilliant! It's how Porsche should have done it in the first place!

Cheers

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