MILKSHAKE - What a mess, how should I clean this up?

paitken76 · 03-13-2005, 05:50 PM

I purchased my oil cooler seal kit and my cylinder head gasket set last week to try and battle the thick white smoke I had coming out of my tail pipe. I didn't have oil in the water res. but I did have milkshake oil out of the pan, and green froth under the oil cap. From what I gathered, resesearched, and was suggested...it could likely be the the oil cooler or the head gasket. So.... I'm repleceing both. I got through removing all the the parts, bits and pieces today. Tomorrow I'm getting the head resurfaced and tested. As I took everything apart I found milkshake everywhere. Milk shake in the idle stabilizer and attched hoses, milkshake in the vacume lines to and from the throttle assembly, milkshake and unmixed coolant in the oil cooler housing, milkshake in the intake manifold and attched vacume and hose lines, milkshake in the cam assembly...EVERYWHERE. As far as cleaning these items what can I use? Can I soak them all in a bath of something and srub the down then let them all dry out? Can I hit them with a can of carb/choke cleaner? What? As for the oil cooler element itself, how can I clean it out? And is there a way to test it to see if its cracked or corroded? I hear that if the oil cooler seal wasnt the culprit it could be that the oild cooler element itself is cracked or something. Other bits I also have a question about...the oil pressure sensor in the cooler housing had milkshake all over it...did it get in it? And if so does it need replacing or will it clean itself out? The black (I'm not sure what it was) in the rear of the intake manifold also had milkskake all over it. Did it get in the little pin hole too and does it need to be replaced? It's like the Porsche of Exxon Valdez oil spills here and I need some reliable cleaning advise.

Enthuzed1 · 03-13-2005, 10:15 PM

well, a lot of cussing and scrubbing, oh and lot's of patience and time...

my contamination wasn't as bad but definitely had to clean lots of parts....
for all the engine parts(oil cooler housing, manifold, etc.) i just used whatever i had around the house, mainly heavy duty engine degreaser, and all purpose cleaners for the less contaminated....then i just kept spraying and scrubbing with a wire brush....i also used high pressure water during cleaning and the final stage then used my air compressor to "blow dry" water from all the little crevices....it helps if you have a good sized bucket to do all this.....
and for all the hoses, i wouldn't even bother trying to clean them, i'ts much better to just replace them with new ones, it'll prevent any annoying incidents later down the road....

have fun!!!

AFJuvat · 03-14-2005, 04:28 AM

Your head gasket is gone.

With a bad oil cooler you will get oil in your coolant (oil 75 PSI vs. coolant at 16 PSI)

Mineral spirits, carb cleaner, hot water, etc, have just become your new best friends

Get the oil pan cleaned out asap -

AFJuvat

paitken76 · 03-14-2005, 05:11 AM

So you think it's both the oil cooler and the head gasket or just the head gasket? When I remove the head what am I looking for as the tell all sign that it was the cause of this mess? Will it be obvious? If you do think that the cooler is also the culprit, would you suggest that it was just the seals (I bought the complete kit) or that is was the cooler element (that little guy has a hearty price tag on it!). And lastly, the oil pan... should I remove it and clean it out that way? Is it easy to remove the pan from under the car or is it a real BI*CH? After cleaning and reassembling I was planning on replacing the filter, oil and water a few times in a row to clean it all out. That should suffice shouldnt it? (change it all, run engine for a few hours or so, cool and drain / change again) Thanks so much!

mike944 · 03-14-2005, 07:25 AM

Sounds like just the head gasket. What you will probably find, is a corrosion "track" leading from a coolant passegeway to the oil return gallery, in the head gasket area. If the P.O. didn't change coolant regularly, it corrodes the block and the head, and that creates a leak path past the head gasket.

Hopefully, the corrosion is on the head surface, and not the block surface. The surface that is corroded needs to be machined flat again, otherwise the new gasket won't seal. It's A LOT easier to machine the head than the block. Unfortunately, Porsche heads have very little machining allowance, usually, one cut and that's it. The service manual should give you a place to measure for machining allowance. Print out that page of the manual and give it to your shop, along with the head. It should only be in the range of $50-$75 to have the head "surfaced"

If you have the oil cooler seals, you might as well do them while you're in there, it's alot easier to change them with the head removed.

rb101 · 03-14-2005, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by paitken76
If you do think that the cooler is also the culprit, would you suggest that it was just the seals (I bought the complete kit) or that is was the cooler element (that little guy has a hearty price tag on it!).

Chances are the cool element itself is good, but since you are going thru the trouble of head gasket by all means change the oil cooler gaskets too. If you have any questions about the element, take it to a radiator shop and get it checked.

Granite 944 · 11:30 PM

Several months back, I had the milkshake condition in the oil pan and such also. It was the oil cooler gasket/o-rings.

It does make a mess. As far as cleanup goes, this is what I did from a suggestion from some pretty sharp fellas (thanks Danno).

After replacing oil cooler gaskets, oil pan drained, replaced oil filter with a cheapie, plug back in pan, I poured about a gallon of acetone in the filler tube into the pan, then get rather creative here........I jumped up and down on the bumper, and shook the car around as much as I could, to slosh the acetone around in the bottom of the pan to get the solvent to wash that coolant off bearings, and such. Drain it out, put plug back in, and repeat above again. OF COURSE, DO NOT START THE ENGINE. Like Danno says, shake, not stir.

Now you want to add in some oil (you already put a new filter on). 6 quarts is what I put in (buy a case or so of cheapie 30 wt oil), run the engine no more than 5 minutes (at idle ONLY), then stop, drain out oil, change out filter again, put in more cheapie oil, and do again...........5 minutes, and dump it. I did this a total of three times, wasted 3 filters, and 18 quarts of oil. Put in your last and good filter, use your good oil, fill, and you should be done. You will see some milky stuff in the filler tube for a day or two, but it should go away pretty quick..........at least mine did. And I wasn't losing water anymore from the resevoir.

I didn't even worry about trying to clean the other things.

I don't remember having "thick white smoke coming out of my tail pipe". You may very well have a blown head gasket. Did you by chance notice a big drop in power/poop of the car? I would think this would also be a big indicator of head gasket problem.

Good luck!

Edit: The biggest reason for using the acetone, is, since coolant is much lighter than the oil, it helps wash, and carry it out of the pan. Draining the oil only, will leave a lot of coolant behind in the pan to just get pumped around the oiling system again. At least, thats the story I'm sticking with.

paitken76 · 03-28-2005, 08:16 AM

Finished almost everything lastnight. I took EVERYTHING apart and cleaned the hell out of it. The exhuast system front to tail, cam assembly & parts, head, pistons, rubber hoses, vacuum lines, gauges, sensors...well EVERYTHING. I replaced every gasket and every seal everywhere while I was at it, new hoes, clamps, plugs, filters, oil, belts.. you name it. Basicly I did more than I had to, but why not I was already in there. I have a few things to adjust, accidently reversed the wire probes on the Oil Temp Sensor so it indicates redline on the dash. Quick reversal of the wires will fix that, and I have a bit high idle due to a new throttle body idle bolt that needs adjusting. I still need to do a few water and oil changes before she's road worthy to get any other leftovers out of the engine. I started it and it runs, thats a good sign, but I have a whine (maybe a overly tightened power steering bely of Alt belt - Those are the only ones I didnt really measure. Used a gauge on the Timing & Cam of course. ) and most important of all there's "pinning" that sounds like the lifters are out of whack... out of sync or lifting too high / low. Something. But it definitely sounds like the lifters. My dad worked on cars back in the day and he thought the same thing, it sounds like the lifters. Which back in the day he said he would just adjust. Whats wrong? And how do I fix it? Big problem, small problem? Maybe everything just needs to run for a bit to lube up and get moving again? I ran it again this morning (first lastnight) for a few minutes and it sounds better but the pinning noise is still present. Suggestions PLEASE!

mike944 · 03-28-2005, 09:04 AM

The clanking sound in the lifters is probably because they're empty of oil, or have some air in them. it SHOULD go away in the first few minutes of running. Just keep it at idle, dont rev it, until it goes away. I know it's nerve-wracking, just letting it run making noise, but you should hear them stop making noise one by one.

In case you're not really familiar with it, the fuel injectors do make a fairly loud ticking when they go on and off, but that's normal. The injectors sometimes sound somewhat like lifters ticking

paitken76 · 03-28-2005, 09:34 AM

Thank goodness, so you'ld say it's OK if I just let it run for say an hour in the driveway... for everything to get lubed up, lose air and do what it needs to? Should I add a bit of oil anywhere directly? Would that help any? And since you say it SHOULD... what if it doesn't, then what? Thanks!

paitken76 · 03-28-2005, 09:37 AM

Oh, and the injectors... do they always make noise (if thats what Im hearing) or is that an indication of something as well that I should look at?

paitken76 · 03-28-2005, 04:17 PM

Ah yes, this is fun. Well I patiently ran it, watched it... and after ten minutes or so the pinning stopped. All thats left now is the whine however it almost sounds like it isnt one of the belts but the motor. What would whine or cause a whine? Also, shortly after the pinning ended the engine for a moment sounded GREAT, perfect and then rough idle persued. It revs up to about 1400 and then drops to about 700 RPM. Whats that all about? And just as I was about to adjust the throttle body idle bolt. I even went ahead to adjust it in case it had anything to do with it, but it just surged higher or lower as I adjusted it. I was hoping it would go away. Does the DME have any adjusting to do maybe, since it moniters all the sensors etc and cleverly makes other items compensate for ones that are performing badly could it be suddenly confused and need to "re-program itself" ? I installed a new TPS and Idle Stabilizer while I was at it with the engine work. Atleast I know it's not that. Suggestions?..... and thanks so much again everyone

DannoXYZ · 03-28-2005, 09:58 PM

"but it just surged higher or lower as I adjusted it."

Leak somewhere after the throttle-body. As you adjust idle, the DME adjusts the ISV to compensate for the different air-flow AND the leak at the same time. Leaking to a chasing-your-tail kinda syndrome. Pressurize the intake and use a 2-foot section of 1/2" OD hose as a stethoscope and listen around the intake-manifold gaskets and ISV hoses under the intake.

I inspected a car last weekend that had all brand new hoses and gaskets installed. Turned out the bracket holding the intake-manifold was a little too high and caused the rear three intake-gaskets to leak. Never would've found it if it was for the pressurized intake test. Spraying carb-cleaner on the hoses and gaskets didn't reveal anything... After fixing the bracket and sealing up the intake-gaskets, we got 2" more vacuum at idle too.

paitken76 · 03-29-2005, 05:07 AM

Another update. I shut her off and screwed in that throttle bolt just about all the way and started her back up. Jumped the pins to then back her out slowly after the car warmed up so that I could set the idle. The surging stopped (knock on wood...for now). After removing the jumper (thus reactivating the NEW idle Stabilizer) the RPMS dropped about 500, so something must be metering wrong right? Maybe I'll just try it again. I also unplugged the O2 to eliminate that from the equation before trying my luck at the throttle bolt. Wasn't the O2 and I checked all vacuum lines, hoses. All good, most are new and everything is tight. We'll see if I can fix the low idle.... maybe I should jump it and set it high so that when I unjump it and it drops, it lands on a good idle RPM? As for the whine, I still think it's the Power Steering Belt I feel I over tightened. Anyone know how to adjust that guy? Whats the proper tension? I have a Krikit.... Also, if it is the belt... would it accelerate as the motor does? I ask because I dont think it would but if I give it a tad of gas the whine gets loader, faster (higher pitch) along with the engine. Would a belt do that or does this mean it's something else? Thanks!

mike944 · 03-29-2005, 05:56 AM

I noticed above that you said you installed a new TPS. Did you adjust it correctly? With the engine off (and in a quiet area!), put your ear right next to the throttle body. you should hear a faint click as soon as you start to move the throttle off it's rest position. If you don't hear the click, or you have to move the throttle any more than the slightest amount to make it click, your TPS is adjusted wrong, and that could possibly cause idle problems.

Unlike most cars, the TPS in a 944 is a "throttle position SWITCH" it has 3 positions. Idle, full throttle, and everywhere inbetween. If the DME is not recieving the idle signal, it will think your foot is slightly on the gas, and it won't know what to do.

Also, check the large rubber hose in between the air flow meter and the throttle body for leaks. This will cause idle problems as well.

paitken76 · 03-29-2005, 06:14 AM

The air boot is new as well. And the TPS switch I used Clarks Garage info for adjustment. I installed it and set it so that the instance the throttle body is in closed position you hear the little click. I'll recheck it after work though.