bad k/cp unit?

carsonmx114 · 09-30-2005, 04:37 PM

i've been tracking down a problem with my 951 cutting out under boost. i found out today that i'm not getting a ground signal to the cycling valve to open the wastegate. i'm not using the valve anyway because i have a boost controler, but i think the dme unit is cutting my fuel because of a problem with the k/cp unit. does anyone have an opinion on this? does anyone have a k/cp unit for sale? thanks!

gorfllub · 09-30-2005, 04:49 PM

Still no go eh? (A little Canadian talk for ya there)

I still havent got mine working yet either. New cycling valve is here, awaiting install.

Found 3 other hoses cracked and leaking. They have been replaced. Hopefully the valve will fix it all.....

todd951 · 09-30-2005, 08:18 PM

Do you have stock chips or aftermarket? The software on the stock chips will cut fuel if the boost level exceeds a certain level, to prevent engine damage if the wastegate sticks closed or something. If you have your boost controller set for higher than stock boost, then you need aftermarket chips.

carsonmx114 · 10-01-2005, 04:23 AM

thanks for the reply, i've got the autothority maf kit with their chips. i ran 18psi for four years and never had any problems. i think my problems started with a broken hose at the wastegate. in the process of troubleshooting before i found the broken hose i managed to short circuit the wires to the cycling valve. now i've installed new hoses but i got no signal from the k/cp unit. so i think i'm in the market for a k/cp unit. any input would be greatly appreciated.

ae1969 · 10-01-2005, 08:00 AM

Carson...... can you list your setup in your sig. Do you have...

- Aftermarket boostguage ?
- Stock wastegate ?
- Stock turbos etc..etc...
- Any other modifications...
- AFR meter?

As tood mentioned if you have aftermarket chips the fuel cutoff for overboost protection is taken out of the equation. Only the stock chips do this.

One thing that can cause this kind of cutoff is knock.

Your authority chips were not meant to be run at 18. I know everyone sets them at that. They start to lean out at the top end . Lower your boost to 15 then 11....

Let me know if the cutoff changes when it kicks in (rpm) or if it goes away all together.

I have only heard of one KLR going bad.......and to be honest it was more than likely something else in the end.

carsonmx114 · 10-01-2005, 08:38 AM

1969, i read one of your posts yesterday and it sounds like you've got a hot car! thanks for trying to help me. i've got a vdo 25psi gauge, a sks electronic boost controler, stock wastegate and bov. a autothority maf kit. i've got a k26/27 hybrid turbo now but it was stock when this problem started. as far as the klr being bad i must plead ignorance, i was testing for circuit on the cycling valve while driving the car and the wires i had temperarily run into the car shorted together. the problem i had then which had the same symptoms turned out to be a broken hose at the wastegate. after repairing that the car still does the same thing.(cuts out hard under boost). i can feather the trottle and gets to the redlines under minimal boost but if i rip it at all it will quit as low as 10psi depending on the boost controler setting. my theory now is that i had a severe lose of boost when my boost controler opened up and the dme was cutting fuel to protect the engine. now after i've damaged the klr unit the dme is protecting the engine the same way because it's not getting info from the klr. how can i know if the klr unit is working? i drove the car with a circuit light on the cycling valve wires and got nothing, there is power but no ground signal from the unit. thanks again for your help.

ae1969 · 10-01-2005, 04:42 PM

Ok

A few things that jump at me.

1. You are running a K27. With the 6 or 8 hotside ?

2. Authority chips. Were not mapped for the K27 hybrids. You need another chip set. Fuel/timing maps are probably off.

3. Why are we focusing on the cyclic valve its out of the equation?
You should be connected .......

Boost Line from HardPipe ---> Solenoid from SKS -----> top of wastegate

The cyclic valve should not be connected to this arrangement at all.

4. When you Feather it ..........are you getting full boost? Try this in 3rd/4th gear. Does it still stop at 10 psi?

carsonmx114 · 10-01-2005, 05:21 PM

hello 1969,
your right i don't need the cycling valve but the fact that the klr unit is not triggering it makes me think that the klr unit is bad and therefore not doing it's job to keep the dme on track with the rest of the system. as for the turbo, this problem started before i had it upgraded, my receipt is in my toolbox at work but i think they machined out the compressor housing and put the larger k27 impeller in it but i don't know if it's a 6 or 8. full trottle shuts it down quicker. with the controller on a lower setting it shut down at 10psi and with the wastegate hose blocked it shut down at 14psi. my service manual tells how to make the car run without the klr unit but says it will run at a decreased preformance level, i think this is what is happening to my car now. any ideas? thanks again for your help.

ae1969 · 10-01-2005, 08:00 PM

As I understand it..........

With cyclic valve disabled the KLR can only pull back timing based on knock sensing.

Now the question is are you actually getting fuel cutoff .

Clamping the line to the wastegate should easily have you spiking the boost over 20. Not a good thing to do by the way.

I think you have to start looking elsewhere.

1. BOV - check it.

2. Intercooler pipes. Make sure there are no rips and tears on the connectors. I had a similar issue when the car developed enough boost it would blow past a ripped connector. Mine has a tendancy to blow the one coming of the turbo. I double clamp that one.

3. Check the compressor side. Make sure the turbo fins look nice and clean.

4. Collapsed crossover or dump pipe. These are double walled and will collapse causing excessibe back pressure that will prevent boost build up.

5. Wastegate. If its a stock wastegate. The spring will fail. Not IF but when. It will bleed boost like its going out of style.

Also question : When you run it ........

What is the result of this....

In 3rd gear at what rpm are you developing 10 psi ? before it cuts out............

Also just to be clear does the 10 psi hold to redline ? or when you hit it.......... its like hitting a wall and boost drops.

carsonmx114 · 10-02-2005, 03:06 AM

i would agree on not clamping the wastegate hose, but my service manual actually listed that in the troubleshooting procedure. i checked the wastegate with a presure pump. started car cold, bypass pipe stayed cool, down tube from turbo got warm, applied presure to wastegate and bypass tube gets hot. also when i release the presure i can hear the wastegate click closed. i'm guessing it's shutting off the injectors because i've checked for spark with a test light on the car while driving and i've also driven the car with a fuel presure gauge on it. i didn't look at the tach as closely as the boost gauge but the rpm range seemed normal relative to boost, i'm guessing 3k to 4k. the boost stayed at 10 when the engine cut out, and when i clamped the wastgate hose it stayed at 14. i didn't hold it long because it's pretty hard on the drive train, i would let it cut out, come back and cut out again then i'd let off the trottle. i've checked all the major things i know to check, i tried checking the injector pulse while forcing the engine to cut out but it's hard to tell which happens first the engine cut or the injector pulse cut (i tried a analog meter and a led test light). i checked the bov also it still looks new and seems to work fine. thanks again.

ae1969 · 01:55 PM

Have you checked for fault codes on the test port?

You run the car.......... have it do what its doing ..........check for codes.

It will have a code for a faulty klr.

Don't shut the key off. It resets it.

Look under 944/951 repair. Fault Codes.

http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/

....

So you say you have fuel and spark cutting out? when you hit the 'wall' ?

carsonmx114 · 10-02-2005, 05:33 PM

the spark is still there as well as fuel presure so i'm assuming the injector pulse is cutting out. thanks for the link on the blink codes, i read about them in my service manual and was thinking of ordering the code tool. maybe i'll know more tommorrow.