So should I replace the belts?

First things first, do the belts and front engine seals. Then plugs, wires, cap and rotor (C and R only if needed). If the vibe goes awaywhen it warms up, it is most likely not the belt causing it.

Timing belt. It's due. If it doesn't have records for the timing belt being changed, for the love of all that is good and pure change the timing belt NOW. Water pump and front of engine seals too. considering the mileage.

The timing belt is spec-ed for a live of 30,000 miles or 3 years, whichever comes FIRST. Any longer and every last penny of that $2,000 will be invested in a new head.

If you think you'll beat Neons and Cavaliers and Escorts in stoplight drags, you might just barely edge them out. The first few times you try to drag them anyway. It takes _very few_ hard launches for the differential's ring and pinion to shatter, so after those first few times barely (and I mean BARELY) nosing out some Neon, you'll be stopping mid race to pick up your transmission.

For $2,000, if the belts/seals/water pump are 100% certain done very recently, you might coax an extra 5-10 horsepower from the engine. The simple fact is that these engines were designed to run very close to their practical limits. The stock exhaust is very well designed. The stock intake already pulls cold air from the fender and the filter is the same size as the filter that feeds the 280 hp 4.6 litre V8 in my daily driver so the stock filter is not a restriction for the 924S's 2.5 litre engine. Cone conversion kits lose power because they suck hot air from the engine compartment.

My official advice:

Leave the car stock, bring it up to 100% maintenance-wise (Belts, Seals, Water Pump), and spend the $2,000 on a race driving school. IMO the best way to make _any_ car fast is to have a well-trained driver at the wheel. You'll get far more speed per dollar by spending that money on your own driver's education.

Aaron

Have you done much work on other cars?
The belts can be intimidating. If the timing belt is put on wrong, or breaks,you are in for a big repair bill.

Aaron is a wise man...

I beg to differ on this one..
throw a thermometer into the stock air filter, and then throw a thermometer into the cone air filter and you'll see that both are approximately the same.

when you take the stock air box out, you create quite the hole above the alternator.... and that area has pretty free flow air from the front of the car - so heat isn't really an issue.

I'm not saying they gain power or performance... all i'm saying is that i believe the philosophy that it is less efficient because it sucks in hot air from the engine compartment is just fluff.

No, it's not the same engine.

And the turbo alone from a 951 can run $1,500. Plus, you'd need the turbo DME. And the turbo's boost control computer (KLR). And you'd need to figure out a place to mount them both. Plus the Turbo's special head (ceramic exhaust ports with sodium-filled valves). You'd need the turbo's lower compression pistons (forged, unlike the cast pistons in the 924S) and its forged connecting rods. The intake manifold too. And the full exhaust system (everything is different in the exhaust). You'd need the turbo's oiling system too. And the supplimentary cooling system to circulate coolant through the turbo. And the full turbo wiring harness. And you'll need the turbo transmission too since the 924S transmission will self-destruct from the turbo's power. Turbo clutch too... etc.

What I'm getting at is that while the short block might be close to the same, the engine is many evolutionary steps away.

Can it be done? Yes. Will it cost more than flat-out buying a _perfect_ 951? Yes.

In a week its going to get tuned up and replaced belts then plug wires and (throttle responce cam-is this good?). I guess you guys are right it doesnt have to be fast. Ladys still like it-most dont like to go fast anyway. Well thanks for the help-got school tomorrow-talk again tomorrow.

A cone will make our cars sound throaty. That's all. No performance gain whatsoever. The point of resistance is the AFM.

like i said - it's not about speed... it's about style with these cars...

think about it... when you see someone barreling down a street, you (or at least i do) think what a dick showing off and having no regard for safety...
but when you show up crusing in this thing - the heads turn for a different reason.. because they're not all that common, and because they're stylish...

soak it up. keep your 2grand and buy one of those ladies something nice.

No, it does pull warmer air than the stock setup. And if you're just measuring the area with the car sitting there, it's not quite accurate. Measure intake air temperature, not the temperature of the filter itself. There's probably a 5 degree increase from the cone filter's location.

Aaron

a 3 liter shortblock would give you more power but im not sure what else would be needed to make it run right and its definately over 2k for a good one.

Thanks Eldorado, but what about the project? Whoops need sleep!

Are you doing the work? Like I said, the belts can be intimidating, but with care you can do them. The tune up stuff is no biggie at all. Get Bosch COPPER plugs not platinums, and do a search on here on DIY plug wire kits, save you a grip of cash.

NGK coppers are fine too. For wires I recommend Magnecor, quality, no BS marketing, just high-quality wires and insulators.

You could do a nice suspension upgrade for $2K.
Talk to you tomorrow.

go to radio shack, find yourself a thermometer on the end of a long lead, and put it *inside* of your air filter... run the lead to a place that's visible to you inside the car and go for a drive... next, do the same with the other filter.. you'll see that there isn't much of a difference.. a degree or two at the most.

to your logic, it would make more sense for the car to gather hotter air when just sitting there (and it does), but when driving it doesn't make any real notable difference at all.

a good read for you, Aaron...
please keep in mind this was from a turbo so it's even hotter under there than with our stock na's.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10620&highlight=filter+ temperature+difference

Not much hotter in the location where the air filter is.

And read what he said about when the car's just sitting.

You'll heat-soak the engine if you don't keep moving or if the airflow is obstructed in any way.

I'll have to try it this weekend after pulling out my thermocouple for the multimeter.

Haha silly boy, a 951 engine swap for under $2000? Keep dreaming.

The first step to understanding how to make your car faster is to understand exactly what you have.

The Porsche 924S is Porsche's attempt to re-launch the 924 in the United States as the new "entry level" car in 1987. The 944 had succeeded the original 924 as Porsche's entry-level car in 1983, but time saw the 944 grow more complex and expensive... hence the need for the 924S.

The 924S is basically an early 944 wrapped in a 924 body. You see, Porsche updated the interior of the 944 in 1985.5 to a more modern style. The 924S has the original interior and the 944 drivetrain. This is an important distinction to make between the 924S and the 924 - the 924's original powerplant was an anaemic 2.0 liter Audi van engine. The 924S's is the much more potent 2.5 liter Porsche inline-four (essentially half of the 928's V8).

That isn't to say that the 944/924S engine is a gem in stock form, however. The power curve only really makes itself felt from 3800-5500 RPM in stock form, and severely lacks low-end torque. This is do (partially) to the car being tuned for emissions instead of performance. One way around this problem is the FRWilk PowerProm chip, which ignores imput from the 02 sensor to optimise the engine for PERFORMANCE instead of emissions. It advances the engine's timing and flattens the torque curve significantly. One easy way to describe the change is in terms of 911 hot rodders and their affinity for carburators; you see the early Bosch motronic injection system in 1970s and 80s 911s tunes the car for emissions... carburators shoot the same amount of gas no matter what the atmospheric conditions, unless the jetting is changed by hand.

So, if you want to make your car faster, FRWilk's chip should be project number one. It will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $200. Take my word for it, it is the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade you can make for the 944. I have tried many.

Exhaust upgrades will not get you any noticeable power. Porsche did a lot of work to make the exhaust system on these cars just about as near to optimised as possible. The only thing that might show some improvement is ditching the catalytic converter in favor of a straight pipe - but then your car will no longer be street legal and you will not pass emissions or inspection.

Lotus founder Colin Chapman had a phrase that many modern "tuners" - especially those with big, heavy subwoofer boxes in their trunks - would benefit from listening to. That phrase is, "To go faster, add lightness." And it's true... shed some weight off your relatively-light 2700 pound Porker, and it will accellerate faster.

In simple terms, every 15 pounds of sprung weight equals about one horsepower throughout the entire rev range. To get more complicated, one pound of unsprung weight (wheels, tires, brakes) is worth about 10 pounds sprung. So, one route to lose a lot of weight would be to find lighter wheels and tires. This, alas, is not easy - the stock "Cookie Cutter" wheels are very light, and the optional Fuchs alloys are about as light as you can find, unless you can afford Fikses.

There is a brake system by a company called Wilwood that is a four-piston caliper bolt-in upgrade for the one-piston caliper stock brakes. They are expensive ($700+), but they come with better pads and steel-braided lines, and they much lighter than stock (and they supposedly brake MUCH better than the excellent stock calipers).

Other easy ways to lose weight on a Porsche are the seats. Switching over to something like 18lb Corbeau Forzas ($220 per seat) will shed a total of about 75 pounds over stock. Another is ditching the AC system ($50 pounds?). I believe Paragon or Rennbay sell an AC-delete kit for just about $120.

Want to lose weight for free? Those rear seats come out. The seat backs can be taken out without losing the rear seats' usability. That bench weighs between 20 and 30 pounds. All this stuff might seem middling, but it can add up to a lot of weight, and there is a big difference between a 2400lb Porsche and a 2700lb Porsche, in terms of speed.

Now, if you want to go faster AROUND A TRACK, look at the suspension. Assuming you have a stock 924S, you currently have a 20mm front sway bar (no rear bar unless you have the M030 option, apparently) and 165lb front springs. Upgrading the thickness of the sway bars, torson bars, the stiffness of the springs and shocks/struts, the ride height, and adding strut braces will give you CONSIDERABLY better cornering ability. Remember, the fastest car around a track is the one that can carry the most speed through its corners. (if you want more details on suspension upgrades, send me a PM and I will help out the best I can... as you can see from my sig, it has been my focus)

Now, here's the most important part:

DO NOT RACE THOSE NEONS AND ESCORTS ON PUBLIC ROADS. Have fun with your car, but teenager+street racing almost always leads to accidents or injuries or worse. Don't drive around with a chip on your shoulder... you aren't the one with something to prove, the kids with the Neons are.

Good luck and drive safe,
CJ Fusco