If you were given the choice

[arnebret]

What 944 model would you choose?

I am currently thinking of buying a new 944 model, as i have always owned an 88 951 and i want a car like that back. This time i am not thinking about a 951, as a turbo just doesn't do it for me in my day-day trips. Don't get me wrong, the 951 is a very nice car with huge tuning potential.

The 944 S2 would seem like a very nice model. Power is ok, no turbo, last in the N/A series and relatively easy to get hold of a reasonable one.

But to be honest, the S3 seems like an even more interesting option. 6-speed gearbox, more power than a turbo, 16V and updated looks. Now of course i know it's just a 944 with some new bits, so i am refusing to use the term 968 here Drawbacks: harder to find, bit more expensive and... am i overlooking something?

Are there any people out there that have/are driving a 944 and have some comparison to the 968. Is it worth the extra trouble and money, or would an S2 work just as well?

Bottom-line: what would you pick and what would be your advice?

[Dantilla]

Depends on what you want to do with the car.

For a daily driver, the S2 or 968 is preferable to a 951. No lag, much better gearing, better low-end torque.

If you want to modify, only a 951 will do. lots of aftermarket support, and silly horepower numbers can be achieved relatively affordably. The S2 and 968 were optimized pretty well by the factory. There will be no big power increases without spending more than the purchase price of the car.

For autocrossing, I've gotta vote for the S2. Even though on paper the 968 has higher performance, the S2 will usually take the 968 on autocross day. I think it has to do with the 968's 6-speed tranny. The S2's 5-speed has a second gear that is exactly the sweet spot.

The only downside to a 968 daily driver is that parts can be harder to find, and very expensive. Not normal tune-up and maintenance items, as they are usualy the same as the 944. Try to find a hood or fender for a 968. It will either take a long time, unless you want to buy factory parts- $1600 hood anyone?

I have owned both a 951 and an S2, and have driven and autocrossed a good friend's 968. All are great cars, but they are all different from each other.

The "Best?"

Go drive them all, and decide what you like the best.

[arnebret]

To clearify: i have owned an 88 951 for over 3 years, so i know how that feels and as you point out this is the tuning car, but not ideal in a day-day situation. That is exactly what I am looking for: a day to day car, with potential to use it on the Autobahn a few times a year and that's about it.

The real thing that draws me to the 968 is the looks and the overall 'updated' feel of everything. Never judge a book by it's cover, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, but of course it plays a part in the decision. Of course the huge engine (by european standards) is pretty cool, but I don't really care for all out speed on the racetrack, the power should be there when i need it on the road in traffic, that's all. A 6-speed just seems to be the thing my old 951 was lacking to make it the ultimate 230km+ autobahn cruiser.

[HondaDustR]

A 968 would just be plain cool from every angle. They are very uncommon to see (I've only seen like 3 in my life) and nothing looks quite like them. Plus, the 6 speed gearbox and the supersize 3.0L would probably be better for daily driving. And don't forget Variocam, which is only found on the 968. Yes, parts would be very hard to find if you needed to scavenge from parts cars, but I think it would be worth it if you could afford it.

I like the title..."If you were given the choice"...If I could so much as get a 16v motor in mine, I would be pretty happy.

[flash968]

i had my choice 4 years ago - i had a budget of 75k to work with to come up with a car i would really like - i wanted a 2 seat manual trans ragtop with A/C that could carry 2 full sets of golf clubs (without sacrificing a seat) and 2 cases of wine at the same time - as a part of my search, i looked at all of the above mentioned cars from every point i could - i didn't care what brand it was, and frankly the fact that it was a porsche was a negative (heavy, sloshy and slow by my standards) - but, it fit the bill better than any other car i could find

i searched for 4 months for a perfect 968 - found a major concours winner, and bought it sight unseen for 28.5k

immediately took it home and tore it apart - have now spent over 40k on it in mods - almost done

very happy with the decision, and have developed a real appreciation for the car as a result

[Dantilla]

968 is a great car. Powerful, smooth, unique, comfortable, yada yada...

If that's the one you want, I think you have your answer.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by flash968

(heavy, sloshy and slow by my standards)

A p-car was 'heavy, sloshy, and slow'? What sort of standards were you holding it up to, and can I get a car that meets your standards?!

I'm not one to defend Porsches unconditionally, but you either got a crappy one, or you can bend time once you hit 88 MPH.

BTW, I'd take the 951. Easily available parts, totally upgradeable. My next P-car will be a 951, my current 944 is my 'starter Porsche'. Thanks to this forum, I now know better what to look for; when I bought my current car, I bought it because I'd been lusting after a 944 since high school, some rich kid had one.

I'm now driving the same car he did in the 80's, and he's dead from a meth overdose.

I win? :P

[Brando]

968. Or, if that wasn't enough for you, 928 GT.

[arnebret]

Maybe i just don't want yet another turbo as i have driven turbo's since my first car (Porsche 951, Audi A6, Saab 93 Aero, all turbo). It would be my first N/A car, so maybe that's why the 951 is just not the one for me this time. In fact, the chassis is of my old 951 is still in my garage and i have several 951 parts lying around the place. Maybe it would be wiser to go for the S2 as more 951 parts will fit the S2 than the S3?

By the way: it's wierd how a 2004 Audi A6 or 2005 Saab 93 Aero compare to a 1988 951. The 951 is just... better in almost all driving aspects. Luxury, comfort and 'moderness' might be less in the 951, but you gotta love a design that has survived time in such a way. The 968 just has to be the ultimate 944 and therefore one of the best cars to drive, by any standards (especially looking at the posts above).

[Porsche-O-Phile]

One more vote for 968.

[flash968]

beau - every porsche i have driven has felt heavy, and i have driven almost every US model - they are in fact very heavy and generally underpowered (no performance car should have less than a 10lb/hp ratio) - also, typically they are set up very soft - this is because they are touring or road cars and not sports cars - i had been driving a sports car for 25 years - apples and oranges

the problem is that i was used to driving an 1800lb car with 165hp at the wheels, and a very nimble suspension - VERY different sensation - it would outrun (up to 120) and outhandle any porsche i've thusfar driven in any canyon i have ever seen - it's just the physics, and you can't fight that

but, i could not carry 2 sets of golf clubs, 2 cases of wine, and it did not have A/C

much happier now 99% of the time - still miss the lightness of the other car, but i like the comfort and solid feel of this one - once i finish getting the hp/wt ratio right, i think i will be very happy - getting close now - another $5-6k and i think i'll have it

[arnebret]

Of course a lightweight car and hardcore suspension, like a Lotus Elise/Exige is more a real sportscar. But what i am looking at is a car that can take me 800km in a single trip without a fuss and can also do 15km of traffic jams or slow day to day traffic. A 'racy' car just isn't right for that job. And of course: the ability to have some storage is also very welcome.

[Brando]

Or... A trimmed 914, flared with a 2.7 six...

[flash968]

arne - that is EXACTLY why i chose the 968 - even in cab form i was able to carry the things i wanted, and be comfortable, while having a sporty ride and be able to handle los angeles traffic - i have no problems taking extended road trips in it, frequently as much as 1600km

brando - did the hopped up 914 thing a couple of times (one with a small block chevy) - no chance of carrying anything, and no A/C in any of them

[arnebret]

Flash968: i understand you have had your 968 for a while now and that you have modified it? How does the 968 live up to expectations. Any frustrating items? Any repeating breakages or unforeseen high cost maintenance?

I can tell you my 951 had some little tricks up it's sleeve that resulted in quite a few $$$ being spent. I want to avoid that this time by buying a good car from the start.

[flash968]

no repeated breakages or anything like that - only normal stuff, like aged out hydraulic lines and such (they are only supposed to last a max of 8 years) - in fact, this has been a very reliable car

there have been plenty of design flaws and shortcomings, but one by one i am either upgrading parts, redesigning parts, or coming up with entirely new parts

i think "high cost" is a relative term - i am used to spending 15k a year on a toy to keep it up - most people would freak out at that - this car has been very much less - the money spent has been in improving the design

as for expectations.....

i now have the "feel" i want from the chassis, and pretty much the suspension - perhaps one more change up front, but the rear is finally right - it took a LOT of engineering to get it right - substantial chassis bracing, and an entirely new suspension, including a lot of parts i had to design - i use the stock control arms, but that's pretty much it - even the M030 stuff was not enough for what i wanted - it rides very smoothly and handles extremely well, far exceeding the club sport

i still want more power - i am at somewhere between 280 and 285, but it needs at least 300 at this weight (about 3k lbs) - there are plans to bump it up to about 290 in the next couple of days, but any more than that will require some significant work - i'll have to live with it for a few months like that, until i get the new additions worked out - i think i can end up about 350 flywheel with a little effort, without losing any features or reliability

[Brando]

Flash...

You can now go turbo Subaru. Buddy of mine (Crazy Hippy here and on 914world.com) has a subi 2.5 charged and pumping out nearly 400 semi-controllable hp. Wow. He embarrasses the Ferrari guys at the Mulholland runs...

Air conditioning? That's why the top comes off

[flash968]

one word for that, and a prerequisite

RAGTOP

then there was the other prerequisite

2 seats - not 4

as for the AC, you live in riverside, and if you've ever been in a car with the top down, you know it sucks when it gets hot - better to have the top up and AC on (or top down and AC on, as i frequently do)

[callmethewander]

i love my S2, i want a 968, i have several n/a's. i would like a turbo as an extra toy. The S2 has been very reliable, plenty of power for me, no lag, good looks. i feel as you do about the 968, a little more modern looking, the epitome of the 944 evolution, etc.. With my budget the S2 was "the best bang for the buck". you might want to consider an '87 or '88S also, a real nice ride. good luck. i voted for a 968 even tho that's the only one i've never driven.

[arnebret]

It seems to be heading to a 968 at the moment, although people keep advising the 951 over the S2.

Let's have a quick look into 'tunability'. Now of course the 951 wins here. A stock 220hp 951 can easily be converted into something like a very comfortable 250/280hp without too much money and time invested.

Now, how does this add up for the 968? As mentioned before by somebody, the engine seems te be pretty decent in stock condition and there would be a little to improve on.

I've found a company that has a simple upgrade involving air intake, open muffler and a new EPROM that should give about 35hp and a bit of low end torque extra. There is not much more to do without serious expenses, it seems. Changing camshafts, improving compression (already at 11:1) seems what is left over and is pretty expensive.

So: what would you do with a stock 968 on an average budget, or even better: what can be done and should it be done?