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Kool it Part II
Alrighty - in response to my latest toy thread I got questions about doing a bolt on 937 style intercooler as well as general intercooler.
I see these considerations: AIR TO WATER - TOP MOUNT AIR TO WATER - NOSE MOUNT - 951 STYLE ONLY WATER INSTEAD OF AIR AIR TO AIR - TOP MOUNT CGT/937 STYLE - REQUIRES A HOLE IN THE HOOD AIR TO AIR FRONT MOUNT AIR TO AIR NOSE MOUNT - 951 STYLE AIR TO WATER BARREL STYLE Now I like air to water - but it adds complexity
Top mount A2A - limited in size
Nose mount requires almost as much plumbing as front mount
Front Mount - requires longest runs of intake pipes
Barrel Style - can be installed in line with pipes - but still A2W
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Well one way to go about it for the DIY - convert something - like air 2 air into a air 2 water:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...4/Ford1978.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...4/IMG_0138.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/x3m944/ic1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...944/ICBITS.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/x3m944/awic.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...installed1.jpg Front Mount - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...944/coolit.jpg Of course the T-bird cooler is way to thick for the 944 or 924 on the passengers side -- but thats not the only place to mount something. |
TOP MOUNT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...944/scoop3.jpg The Air to Water units remain my favorite. Of course I could offer a thousand choices, but I wonder about the cost and how many people are really going to buy one. The best solutions seem to be the ones that require the least amount of pipes - front mount does require considerable pipes. Here is one of my all time favorites: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../FATnRound.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...FATnRound2.jpg |
Of course a front mount is easy and would be more universal
Measurements for a Front Mount Intercooler dimensions show to fit in front area -(without modification): Max Length is 20” Max Height is 14” Max Depth/Core thickness 3” Fitting unit in front of Radiator and inside standard space. Of course something like the Fiberwerks Front end would allow more room and better air flow. |
I love that barrel, just love it - anyone else with me on this?
Air to Water Oh Yea! |
i dig the barrel also. would there be any point in putting something like that on my 951?
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yes better intercooler performance - better cooling, etc... not to mention looks.
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Barrel styles come in various diameters and lengths, we carry all of them. But I like them for the coolness and performance, talk about easy of installation. 4", 6" or 8" diameters and various lengths, I have used two units before - although not in a porsche.
Can use water or other solutions... very efficient, I have even boosted cooling with CO2. |
seems like i could mount it in the stock location and pipe some water/coolant into the jacket.
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Barrels cool, but its a very large air restriction, I say front mount air to air
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i doubt that baby is any more constrictive. plus, you can make it pretty big.
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Well the data doesnt show it to be any more restrictive:
4" x 6" (11.75" Length) 270 HP 390 CFM 4" x 8" (13.75" Length) 290 HP 390 CFM 4" x 10" (15.75" Length) 300 HP 390 CFM 6" x 8" (17" Length) 600 HP 920 CFM 6" x 10" (19" Length) 650 HP 920 CFM Pressure Drop @ 7PSI, 1.1 PSI Drop All 6" Barrels Are 3" In/Out, 3/4 Push On Hose Fittings All 4" Barrels Are 2.25" In/Out, 3/4 Push On Hose Fittings A Barrel Kits Includes: .......- Electric Water Pump with 3/4" Barbed Fittings .......- Small Radiator: .......- 4" Kits: (L=11.5" W=10" H=1.5") with 9" Fan .......- 6" Kits: (L=13" W=12" H=1.5") with 10" Fan .......- Billet Inline Filler with Cap Temperature Drop From In to Out - Can Range From 45% - 100% |
The pressure drop across the intercooler should also be considered.
In choosing an intercooler or designing an intercooler system to work with a given application I like to keep the pressure drop minimized to at least 2 PSI or less. Lets say you want to run 15 PSI of boost, and your intercooler has a pressure lose of 2 PSI. So you set your boost controller for 15PSI and you only get 13 PSI of boost at the intake manifold. So you get a cooler charge and that might make up for the loss in boost pressure or it might not. We will say you still want to run 15 PSI, so you have to set the boost controller to 17 PSI to get 15 PSI at the manifold. Sounds simple just bump the boost up, but you end up with two problems with this: First; you have effectively increased the air charge temperature (delta rise) coming from the compressor Second; you have increased the exhaust manifold pressure (backpressure) when using a turbo, or load on the belts when overdriving for more boost out of a supercharger. Now here is were it gets hairy, this 2 PSI drop intercooler may be more efficient than one with a lesser pressure drop, but in our little scenario this intercooler now has to cool the air charge from a higher temperature. In practice and in effect you could have a less efficient intercooler with a 1 PSI pressure loss that could cool the intake charge to a cooler temperature than the 2 PSI loss intercooler, because you would only have to set the boost controller at 16 PSI to get you 15 PSI of boost, which will have reduced the compressor outlet air temperature from the 17 PSI setting. So with the lower 16 PSI boost setting the wastegate will be open more, relieving exhaust manifold pressure, and reducing the exhaust temperature, which would effectively reduce combustion chamber temperatures and chances of detonation, etc, etc. It’s a nasty vicious cycle once you start to think about it and plan it all out. Compromise is the name of the game. Liquid intercoolers tend to be more efficient, they are can be as restrictive as any other intercooler, but a 1.1 PSI drop is pretty low. Of course I didn’t even get into your hard pipes, the pipes feeding the turbo or supercharger, the air filter, the pipes to the intercooler and from it, turns, diameter, bends – mandrel or…. Etc… all can create a pressure drop – so no system is going to be able to give you the same pressure you get out of the Boost source at the manifold unless the unit is right at the manifold. The old Buick Turbo v6 (3.8) carb, and others like Corvair – all without intercoolers place the turbo as close to the manifold and as possible. My twin turbo Carb setup based on the same design – puts the Turbochargers as close to the intake as possible reduces pressure drop – of course there is not intercooling in that sort of setup. Which means higher temps, but in a low boost situation and even moderate boost – you can deal with higher temps, provided it doesn’t put you over the detonation threshold – but that’s design 201, we need to stick to 101 for these discussions, so forgive me getting off track. Bottom line is to try and reduce pressure loses in the intake track between the compressor and combustion chamber. |
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...944/cooler.jpg
Does IC size matter? Yes, in most applications I believe it does. IC size and intake plumbing volume effects the boost response. Would I be concerned about IC size on a race application? NO! Would I be concerned about IC size on a low boost street application? YES! Why - because I would want to design the system to be responsive. That is the point - you want it responsive, you want max power and you want it reliable. When picking an intercooler don't get an intercooler that's too big for your turbo. You want to cool the charge as much as possible but minimize pressure drop and certainly pick the best compromise in total intake plumbing volume to maximize performance: 19"x7"x3" IC with 4' of 2" piping has a total internal volume of approximately 650 cubic inches. 12"x 48"x 3" IC with 4' of 3" piping has a volume a little over 2000 cubic inches. |
What about turning the intercooler into a holding plate refridgeration unit? Use the AC compressor to freeze the brine/coolant in the wet side of the intercooler.
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Been their done that - yes it can be done to super cool a liquid - depending on unit used and power levels.
Down side is works like crap for air to air - only liquid is do able with any kind of gain. jaqs featured an interesting setup back in the day - but that was a long time ago. Few current vehicles do this as well - but more of a instant boost in cool air - Anyway - yea lots of ways - including ice boxes - using a cooler -etc |
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