I decided on an engine. Now i have some questions

pkt1213 · 03-21-2006, 10:17 AM

I think I am going to go with a 3 liter block w/ 89 2.7 8V heads and turbo.

OK. Now to follow some smart and dumb questions.
1. What is the max displacment I can get out of the 3L block?
2. I don't have my books here. I was wondering if someone had a recomendation about what turbo to use? I want little to no lag. I do autoX so lag=bad.
3. Where would a good place to sorce the block and crank and heads? Do I really want to know how much it'll cost?
4. Myself and my best friend can do all the engine building and installing and that sort of fun stuff. How much extra, in installation and wiring and stuff, is it to install that engine than say turbo a N/A or installing a turbo engine.
5. Anything else I might have forgotten.

If you're not going to be helpful don't post. I don't want any of the **** saying I should buy a 951 or whatever. That doesn't help.

Any other suggestions are welcome. It'll be after my suspention upgrades and brakes.

nynor · 03-21-2006, 11:36 AM

just get a 951 - JK!!!!

i've heard of guys getting 3.2 liters out of that kind of setup.

Britwrench · 12:35 PM

Help is always available. Firstly, what is your budget?

1. For the engine

2. For the transmission..LSD, r&p and ratio change

3. For the suspension and brakes..

pkt1213 · 03-21-2006, 12:43 PM

Haha. My budget is what I can afford over the next 2 years. I get my army reserve reenlistment bonus and will probably be spending a chunk on my car.

Tranny I am planning of getting a LSD and probably a turbo tranny. I might just frag the 2 I have while looking though.

Suspension is going to be 250lb autoX springs front, koni adj. all corners, and 27-28mm (hollow?) tortion bars. Willwood front calipers. Is there any rear brake upgrades?

Britwrench · 03-21-2006, 02:27 PM

Sounds ok, I think you need to do more planning on what this will actually cost and the time needed to do it. I can see $10K and above on the engine.

pokey · 03-21-2006, 03:57 PM

I believe you can use '86 951 rear brakes without too much modification.

Dantilla · 03-21-2006, 04:23 PM

As you are basically charting new territory, it would be nice for the rest of the Pelicanheads for you to keep us updated on your progress and costs.

Should be a great engine. More than I'm willing to tackle.

pkt1213 · 03-21-2006, 05:17 PM

Yeah. When I start it'll be a long expencive project. I know this. My ex wife will be paying me a lot of money and I'm not going to have a whole lot of bills. Why not?

A lot of it is dependant if I get a house with me best friend. If he takes his job with Sony and I go back to school that'll be 3 years or so right there to get it done. He said he'd buy the welder air tools and whatever other tools we need.

I figure I'll probably spend a year trying to find the best deal on a crank and block. Plus the heads are going to be hard to find. I'm really trying to find out what a reasonable price for a block and crank would be. That's going to be a lot of the expence and that way when I find a good deal I can snap it up. Of course a week later I'll find a better deal.

I'll def. make longs posts with lots of pics.

Tishabet · 03-22-2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pkt1213
I think I am going to go with a 3 liter block w/ 89 2.7 8V heads and turbo.

3 liter block and 2.7 1989 head are one and the same...that is, any 89 NA 2.7 engine already has a 3.0 block.

nynor · 03-22-2006, 05:23 AM

IIRC, the difference is that the 3 liter has a longer stroke, differenct crank.

pkt1213 · 03-22-2006, 05:39 AM

Yeah. I know they have same block. I would need the 3.0L crank. Should I correct that to a 3.0L crank and the what is it 104mm bore block.

Tshabet. I don't know if you ment the heads are the same. They aren't. 2.7 is a SOHC and all 3.0 and 16v DOHC w/ or w/o variocam. I don't know if you were just trying to point out the blocks or not.

I'm also thinking about not punching the block out anymore. I mean it'd be cool but a lot of extra $$.

924Sman · 03-22-2006, 05:46 AM

When all done how much do you estimate this will cost total? I ask because you could go the J Millege-sp? route. Buy an engine of his!

Your route is full of weight gain...heavier tranny, brakes, the turbo unit and components, added coolers (oil/water/air). Heavier engine components.

A JME motor will give you that power and much less weight and parts to worry about. Little to no modification installing the engine.

Dal

pkt1213 · 03-22-2006, 06:19 AM

I have never heard of what you're talking about. Explain please?

924Sman · 03-22-2006, 06:28 AM

What part is not understood?

Weight gain or the JME engine?

http://www.jmengines.com/index.htm

pkt1213 · 03-22-2006, 06:54 AM

The JME. I had never heard of it.

So are you suggesting I have them build me engine or get parts from them or what?

Tishabet · 03-22-2006, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pkt1213
.

Tshabet. I don't know if you ment the heads are the same. They aren't. 2.7 is a SOHC and all 3.0 and 16v DOHC w/ or w/o variocam. I don't know if you were just trying to point out the blocks or not.

Sorry, should have been clearer. I was just trying to convey the fact that the 2.7 liter head came attached to a 3.0 block when it left the factory.

pkt1213 · 03-22-2006, 07:02 AM

OK. That's what I thought you were getting at. I knew that. So i could do a 2.7 with the 3L crank. I just figured if I found a crank I could find the block too.

924Sman · 03-22-2006, 09:15 AM

In a sense yes. What you are looking to do is going to cost a fairly large sum and for the money put into doing this you could use one of his set ups. He can do different levels of mods from street to strictly race. Beings you are into AX and have a concern for lag, which is going to happen, just how much is the issue. One of the JME set ups can give you the same hp range in an NA 944 the turbo has somewhat stock. So reasoning would suggest dropping the cost and hassel to make it a turbo and spend it on a motor already proven and no extra exhaust components, no intercooler and no lag and weigh a heck of alot lighter.

The engine idea you have is not proven at least in this motor, you have no idea what your engine design will offer, an educated guess at best. Now you have 15 Grand wrapped up in a set up and no clue as to the outcome. I would spend the 15 Grand on a proven set up designed to my needs. And drop the motor in today and off I go no need to modify the car to fit all the gadgets or lose anymore blood than needed!!

This is all I am saying, just another power option for you to consider, not flaming your idea.

auh · 03-22-2006, 10:23 AM

omg this is going to be so excited becuase I can't ever remember anyone actually turboing an NA on this bored.

I mean, yeah people have said they wanted to but have so shorting giving up after being flamed over and over again.

great, now I sound like im all giddy inside...

pkt1213 · 11:03 AM

That sounds like a good idea 924sman. Half the fun is getting there and building the engine. It's just fun. It will be more expencive cause I'll probably wind up breaking some stuff.

I know it'll weigh more but I am looking at it like this. I get the extra displacement and torque of the 3.0L and will be able to run a slightly larger turbo that will spool up faster than a 2.5L because of the displacement. It'll be moving more air. The big thing is going to be sitting down with a few turbo books and going over pages and pages of charts for diffrent turbos. That'll be a lot of fun. It'll probably be about the same time as me and Chris sit down looking for the two turbos that are going to go into his LS2 powered Fiero.

Also there's the satifaction of saying I did that. Like I said before it'll be over the next couple of years while I am finishing school. I get my re enlistment bonus plus my wife is going to be paying me a lot of money after our divorce.

Auh.....I am gitty just thinking about it.

Is there a better way to turbo the 3L that what I have suggested? I was reading that everybody used the 8V head even in the 968 than messing with the little 16v valves and then later the variocam.