review of my running problems
 

I've decided to start a new thread to deal with my starting/running issues because the old thread wasn't getting the responses I was hoping for.. probably due to it being two topics in one...

you can read the original thread here .

Basically, if you dont want to read that page, the readers digest version is that I replaced my upper rad hose. While in there, I had to push the intake AFS and JBoot out of the way. Got the hose installed... refilled hose with coolant to remove air..

now my car wont stay started. It'll start, sputter, then die. Unless my foot is on the gas to keep it alive. it revs just fine with no (apparent) loss of power.

Most think it's a vacuum leak. Which would make sense, seeing as how I was fiddling around with the intake. I've inspected everything and all lines that can be seen from the top of the engine, ducking from all angles, the Jboot, everything looks just fine.

I dont hear the hiss of a vacuum leak in the engine bay. I'm told that a leak big enough to kill the idle of the car would probably be noisy.

now, to quote my previous post... is there any chance it could be something other than a vacuum leak?
because I sure as heck didn't fiddle with things rough enough to undo them from the back of the engine. I remember the car was on a jack stand with my buddy under it so i wouldn't have pushed/pulled that hard..

and these lines seem very secure and strong...

what else could I have disturbed, hypothetically, by changing the upper rad hose that would cause it to lose idle and stall?

Even take a step further, what could have just coinsidentally caked out at that exact time that is totally independent from the upper rad hose / intake area? Clarks Garage says a faulty O2 sensor could do that... anything else?

it's starting to get nice outside weather wise, and I'm starting to get anxious :P

have you sprayed some starter fluid around the vacuum lines to see if the idle will change? i am betting (still) that you have a vacuum leak. i'd take off the intake hose and inspect it very carefully for cracks. also, with that thing off, you will have better visibility to the other intake hoses, etc.

took the jboot out, inspected it, and there are no cracks to be seen.

i haven't tried shooting starter fluid around the lines.. what does that do?

it should increase the idle, if there is a vacuum leak, as some of the starter fluid is then sucked into the intake.

Is the idle control valve connected?

to where?
I dont see anything out of the ordinary.

I discovered the vacuum line under the manifold was bad, the one with the "y" in it. Mines an 89 model and all the lines were cracked and brittle. I changed um all. I also discovered a blown intake gasket when i pulled the manifold. When I was bleeding my radiator the coolant was being sucked into the #1 intake runner when i pulled the intake I discovered the bad vacuum lines under the intake

It definitely sounds like a large intake leak. The hoses under the intake usually cause these.

Since you can keep it from stalling by stepping on the gas.

THe flapper door is assuming very little air. BUT your mix is out to lunch so by stepping on the gas you can compensate for the extra air.

Bad O2 probably not. Unplug it.......if you really want to check.

i am betting that the vacuum lines under the intake manifold, somewhere, are not connected/split/cracked/torn and creating a big vacuum leak.

Shot in the dark, just from what you've said.

TPS: TU outta the blue, or not connected properly. Just because it "clicks" doesn't always mean its always "good". You may have just gotten (un)lucky here. Check all connections to this AND the AFS. Also peeky at the DME coolant sensor connector while your doing this also. Good luck.

Granite, can you be more... umm.. layman? I'm having a tough time understanding fully.. I'm not good with names of components yet..

also, where the parts are that you speak of would be a great help too..

83s don't have the idle control valve, so no worries there. TPS is throttle position switch/throttle switch. Follow J-boot to throttle body and switch is on bottom of throttle body. AFS is air flow sensor - barn door just after air box and before J-boot. I'm leaning (pun intended) towards air leaks, but the AFS connexions may be bad, too. However, if they were, holding the throttle open wouldn't make a difference/keep the car from stalling...

I know! You could change your cam seals!

"layman"?..........Get yourself a copy of the Haynes manual, FSM, and start getting acquainted with your car. You's gonna play.........you's gonna pay. At least know the parts/components of your car. Just a matter of if its gonna cost ya money, or your time researching. Nothing good is gonna come outta this without effort/research on your part. Search feature on this board is a decent source also (once ya sort thru all the BS). Good luck!

Slam, thanks for the help... just the answer i was looking for... the throttle position switch was basically all i didn't understand out of all that... i've become very well aquainted with everything from the throttle cable to the air filter recently.. i've had it apart 2 or 3 times in many pieces inspecting (hoping) that's where my fault was.

(and i believe my 83 does have the idle control valve... it's the thing to the left of the throttle cable in this pic, isn't it?)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...2/IMG_0288.jpg

dont mind the yellow zip ties... i had to do it to drive the car home from my buddy's place after discovering this problem...

what does the throttle switch look like? what should i do once i find it to see if it's causing my problems?

didn't someone say that a vacuum leak big enough to stall the car should be able to be heard with your head under the hood? I dont hear anything.. that's the only reason I'm asking for other ideas here...

Granite, thanks for telling me, basically, to learn things on my own. much appreciated.

Take a piece of hose hold one end to your ear and the other around the intake and vacuum lines and listen for a hissing noise.

that is not the idle control valve. that is a mixture screw, if i am not mistaken. when i put my intake back on (my '83) i completely forgot to attach the large vacuum hose that is on the bottom of it. i had exactly the same symptoms you are experiencing and i could not hear the leak. like i said it was a HUGE leak, i could not hear it.

where along the bottom, nynor?

nyor's basically right. That's the idle air bypass screw on the left. Basically adjusts how much air gets past the throttle when the throttle is closed.

The TPS is on the underside of the throttle body - the throttle body's under your zip-tied throttle wheel. To get to the TPS you've gotta take out the throttle body, but you can make a quick check of it by unplugging it. The connexion's on the driver's side. If the car runs better with it unplugged, it'll need to be replaced. Sometimes when mine gets wet it'll cause the engine to bog at part throttle, and WOT will perk things up.

HTH

The idle control valve has a hose that connects to the underside of the intake manifold near the oil fill. You have to lift up the intake manifold to get to it. The inlet hose connects to the J-boot. I am not familiar with the 1983 engine and will assume that Slam is correct, but in 23 years, some cars do not have the original engines, manifolds, etc. The symptom you describe are exactly what I have seen when the idle control valve hose cracked. I think you are looking for a cracked or disconnected large hose. Another possiblity is that the intake manifold has loosened.

you could also use an air compressor with the engine shut off. Pressure up the intake with 5-10psi and listen fer a leak. Oh, take the jboot off and seal up the throttle body before you pressure it up. I used a piece of clear plastic

hmm
air compressor... never thought of that...
i dont own an air compressor, unfortunately... but I'm going to ask a stupid question anyway... would the cold air setting of a hair dryer work?

Probably not enough air pressure from that. My car has a tire pump in the back used for pumping up the donut spare that runs off the cigarette lighter and it should go high enough, however I'm not sure how you would connect it. You would also have to keep it far enough away to not let the noise interfere with listening for the leak.

damn.. my battery is dead... got a jimmy in the driveway, my father's, but he's out of town until sunday and the hood latch isn't working to jump my car..
looks like i'll be waiting even longer..

on the bright side, got all my bearings and stub/hub replaced in my rear wheel today.. now to sit down to some burgers, beans, and beer..... I'm on my own for a few days, might as well live a little. lol :p

Good news! Enjoy the dinner. Any trouble with the CV bolts?

nah.. rented a grinder from home depot for 15 bucks, ground them out, and replaced them with new hex head bolts...

had a b!tch of a time getting the outer bearing on though... well, the bearing was fine.. it was the inner part of the bearing that wouldn't slide onto the stub.. i had to torch the thing to expand it to get on there.. after doing that, it fit just like butter...

i tried to post this yesterday, but the internet was acting crazy, i think due to the nasty weather we were having. anyway, the connection i referred to in my earlier post is directly below the circled part of the intake. i had to take the intake off in order to get to it. i also found this plastic piece that was broken and had to replace it as well. i stole the picture from someone else's post. :) <BR><BR>http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1144420270.jpg

alright.. checked that hose nynor - seems tight enough.

however..

I did find a hose that's cracked. who knows. the last time i started the car it was cold outside, and maybe the warming of the engine made the hose expand, crack, and cause the problem.

It's the one that comes out the bottom of the Jboot, goes to the a/c component in this pic from the left side.. it then exits this from the right side (as shown in the picture), does an 's' curve, and travels up underneath the intake manifold.

that hose that comes out of the right side of what i'm holding in this pic has a couple cracks in it.

I attempted to remove the hose today.. i say attempted because i got the one side off just fine.. but the screw in the hose clamp up under the manifold is rusted and nearly impossible to get enough pressure on it with a screwdriver.. i probably just wasn't trying hard enough.

my plan is to remove this hose and in the long term replace it, but in the short term hold it under some water with the ends sealed and see if any air leaks through the cracks...

pics attached.

where the hose comes from:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1143152857.jpg


Cracked hose:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1144537650.jpg

I suppose i could try starting the car, and put my thumb over the cracks to see if that's the problem..


one more question... the hose in the first pic above that enters that little (valve I think is what we decided on in a previous post?).... the one that enters it from the left (as show in the pic).. is it supposed to be a rubber hose? or a braided hose?
..mine is braided.. looks awfully out of place..

as per my last post, putting my thumb over the cracks (and even taping up the cracks) did nothing. there's no leak there..

my other question remains.. the hose going from the jboot to that a/c switch in my last post.. is that supposed to be rubber? or a braided line...?


now, point of new post:

alright.. breaking news. lol

I got the car jumped today and started... i let it run for a good long while, and as it was running i cut the zip ties off.
the car was holding idle at about 800rpm, but it really sounded like it was chugging... the exhaust had a slight sputtering to it.. not rhythmic or anything, fairly random.

as I was cutting off the zip ties... success.. i heard a hissing sound from under the intake in this area:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1144628907.jpg

it was coming from directly under the intake in this area...

I decided to get a screw driver and put it into what nynor has told me is my "mixture screw" and turn it. The second i put pressure on it, the hissing stopped... i could turn it, and the idle would increase/decrease, and the hissing would get louder and quieter...

could that screw just be out of position? could that be all I'm facing at this point in time?

pull it all the way out and see if there is a destroyed rubber O-ring.

pull what all the way out, exactly? the mixture screw?

the hissing sound really sounded like it was coming from the side (where the red line is), and not from the screw area....

its either the mixture screw, or the gasket between the throttle body and the intake manifold. just guessing here.

Stick a piece of paper in front of the screw and see if it sucks in toward the screw. Also do that around the gasket and see if it sucks the paper toward the gasket. I'm guessing that it might be the o ring on the screw. Check all bolts around the gasket to make sure they are tight.

will do

how do you "set" the screw? is there any way to do it other than just twisting it 'till your idle sounds right?

like i said.. the hissing is coming from the right side, not from around the screw... but i'll check the o-ring anyway... to get to it, do i just undo the screw all the way?

update today..
after jumping the car yesterday and letting it run for a good 15 minutes or so, i went to start the car today and the battery is still dead..

the battery is brand new, only about 8 months old.. could the problems be related at all?

the car ran unassisted yesterday (no jumper cables) for the 15 mins or so... I'll be getting a volt meter on it tonite hopefully.

Eldorado,
I can see that your in for tons of fun here. You must be VERY young and inexperience in cars in general? Are you doing all your diagnosing of your car STRICKLY off this board? Do you have a haynes manual? a copy of the FSM? Or anything else to get a real, live, general approach to diagnosing these kinda things? If not, you REALLY need to, and ya really should read it often. I know money is always an issue. BUTT.........if your gonna play........your gonna HAVE to pay somewhere, sometime along the way.

What did all of the rest of us do when there WAS no internet, and/or forums to refer to?

You MUST! Systematically, eliminate each and every item of suspected problem(s) along the way, starting with, the easiest things, and progressing the harder things. Battery being dead, may or MAY not be a related symptom. You MAY have multiple things going on at the same time.

That hose in pic two is shot! replace it. Is it keeping your car from running.........NO. Vacumn leaks, can and will be a problem. IF you systematically go thru and eliminate them (repair/replace), they will NO longer be an issue to go back to, or wonder about.

"hissing"..........well, sounds like a MAJOR leak of some kind. FIND it!

thank you granite for once again telling me absolutely nothing. what a help.
I didn't ask the question to be told to diagnose and find the problems myself. that's why this place exists. to provide assistance. these posts of yours are not helpful at all.

I'm 23 years old and have spent most of my life dealing with telecommunications equipment. If you have a dhcp error on the network that runs your digital telephony and internet service within your house or building preventing you from connecting to the pstn... or a break in communications in the 4th layer, somewhere, of the OSI model... and you didn't know you had these specific problems, just that your phone and internet "were broken", you'd ask for help.

I appreciate the time spent to writing such a lengthly post that essentially tells me to "do it myself"... but I could really go without it.

now.. with that out of the way..
I got the multimeter on the battery today, and it was reading at 6vdc. very low, i realize that. my question is, does this sound like a normal charge rate for a car that was running at least 2k rpm for 10 minutes, then kicked down to a barely sub 1k rpm idle for an additional 5 minutes? should i let it run longer? would driving it make a difference than letting it idle?

Eldorado,

6vdc is too low but I wouldn't be too concerned with it until you know for sure the battery has reach full charge. If it continues to go down after that, then put an amp meter between the positive side of the battery and the battery cable and let's look at the amp draw. Until then, I would suggest that you work on the other problem of the vacuum leak. Having a battery that isn't sufficiently charged may affect the running of the car, but the vacuum leak is what's really hurting it right now. Let's get that fixed and move on to the battery problem. I would say that only running the car that long will not guarantee the battery is at full charge. Turn the engine off and turn the key back on and see what the volt meter on the dash says. It should be at about 13 or 14 when fully charged. Like I said though, stay with one problem at a time and right now, it's a vacuum leak. Trying to deal with too many things at once can be overwhelming.

Take for instance that you are not receiving a DHCP address preventing any type of PXE boot and you are unaware why the lights are continuously flashing and the PXE server isn't registering any new systems in the main console. Lots of problems there but if you find out there is a broadcast storm and that's preventing any DHCP requests to be answered. After that you can move on to why PXE packets aren't being sent through the switches between the PXE server and the requesting machine. One problem at a time and it will all work itself out. For now jump your car if you need to get it running but work on the vacuum leak and move on to the charging system after the vacuum leak is taken care of. Have you checked the oring on the screw? Mark where the screw is at and then pull it and inspect the oring. Then let's put a mirror under there so you can see and try waving something really thin like a piece of paper around until you see the suction move the thin paper. Then let's look at what we have to do to fix the leak. Then let's look at the charging system.

as always, a great answer :)
I've got tomorrow free.. you can bet your butt i'll be out there trying to get a handle on this...
so much to do.. i also need to do my 2k mile belt retension.... lol

but you're right... one thing at a time... Tears for Fears were right... "when it's all mixed up, you gotta break it down."

of course, any song that uses "fast off through heaven just like moses on a motor bike" is a good song in my books...

how's Boston???

based on the condition of the hose (and I would guess they are all like that) I would start by replacing all the hoses. While it may be overkill, hoses arent too expensive, you can eliminate that as a potential issue and you could possibly prevent your next issue.

Granite was a bit harsh but I think there is still a message in there. Get in there with a trouble light and dont get out untill you figure out the problem. Trace every hose, check every clamp and fitting.