I agree with Jeff. In the years as an owner I see far too many turbo's up on blocks and mucho dollars spent and leaving the owner still perplexed and broke. I know a guy here who bought an 86 951 and dumped 12K into it and it still is not running.....4 years later!

They just seem to nickle and dime one to death with the exception for a few that have been babied since new and cared for regularly, now those are rare and $$$$$.

If going 951 consider the cost 3 years from now, will you be able to sink a small fortune into it and still be happy?

GL!
Dal

I think you have to do what AFJuvet suggested. Determine what you want WHEN YOU ARE DONE. It's only after you know where you are trying to go and WHY you are trying to get there that you can make any plans. If you are putting a turbo into the NA for performance...do what Eldorado suggested, if you are doing it because you just want to learn more about the 944, then maybe you continue on the road you are on. If you just want a good quality reliable 944, then fix your NA and sell the turbo parts. Your destination determines how you get there.

That being said....it's always been my experience that when you try to "convert" a car into something different, expect a lot of hard work, time, money and when you are done, you will have a lot of different parts combined into one package and it's not always clean or easy to figure out what you really need. Porsche is better than most about keeping consistency but there are still going to be times when it's not real clear what you should do. But the experience is invaluable because you wiil definitely have to think through this as it's not a picture perfect situation. It's a fun journey and one that will teach you numerous things but it's also frustrating at times. Not a bad thing, just be prepared for that...and of course we'll be right here to help you if you go down that road.

A lot of words to tell you that you have to look within for the right answer for YOU. No way any of us can set your goals for you, we can however help you try to reach them.

Cool Jeff, wanna trade? :D J/K

CJ, If you must have a turbo... in your situation if you could find a 951 with an excelent body and a F'ed up engine and/or trans that might be a way to go.

Looking at the project and knowing the routine needed to turbo etc; I have a huge respect, even though not practical, for those who wish to engage in such a major mechanical endeavor. Being a wrench since birth, so it seems, working on cars is a PITA on the downside but great satsifaction can come from taking on a project and seeing the results and proving to oneself they can do the work. Turning wrenches these days are only a small segment of what it takes to do normal auto repair let alone a major job!

I bring this up because it reminds me of my "mindset" in racing. " If you THINK you can ...don't! If you KNOW you can....go for it!".....I can certainly say that this also applies in auto repair/fabrication.

I will leave you with that thought and hope you make a good decision, either or, but a good one!

Dal

Good (if conflicting ;) ) advice, fellas. That's an interesting option, Scott...

Well, here's what I want when I am done: a very fast Porsche. What I find myself saying more often than not when I drive the 944 is, "man, I wish I had more power." The 951-into-NA seemed like a good theoretical solution, but, like communism, theoretical solutions don't always translate into the real world.

Last night when I got to thinking, I considered how nice it would be to have a more modern Porsche. Something with working AC and cruise control and a good stereo (my stereo is probably the worst thing about my car - original owner did a hack job). Now, none of these things is a big deal by itself, but when they add up they amount to a lot.

RIght now I am leaning toward parting out the NA and buying a 951. Who knows if that will stay true...

If you want a more modern Porsche, buy a 968. It will be a bit more reliable, in terms of less to potentially go wrong than with a 951. Plus the oldest 968 will be roughly 3-5 years newer than the newst 951. As you tread into 968 territory, you are awfully close to used Boxter territory also...if you want more modern thats even better.

They have similar power stock also, the 968 and the 951.

I think you should scrap the project. Sure its the path less traveled, but you are trying to reinvent the wheel in my opinion. There are plenty of options in the 944 lineage if you like the car but want more power. Why make a 'hack job' kinda car that still would not have nearly the same resale as a stock 944 Turbo.

Converting the n/a to turbo is a ****load of work. Im not only talking the supporting mods like brakes and suspension. But there is ALOT of extra plumbing that needs to be done for a turbo car. Intake, intercooler, exhaust, cooling and a few extra oil lines.

If you want a easier method to make your '83 faster.. 968 or S2 engine. The engine alone will set you back 3-5g's..but the only thing you really would need to figure out is the exhaust which can be fab'ed up by any decent muffler shop.

I dont mean to sound like an ******* but i figured this project would come to this. Only idiots try to make a n/a faster. Which is why i want to buy a JME cam next summer... SmileWavy ...and eventually buy a 968 engine for it!

I say go for it. However I am biased. I already own a house and have considerable retirement accounts. What you will get is an education. Breaking the project into manageable chunks is easy enough to suggest, but I find doing so requires a great deal of dilligence.

This is where I am at.. I love my little 944 but want more power and to be brutally honest with myself and you guys I don't have time, money, or determination to hot rod a N/A so eventually if I want a bump in HP I'm looking at a S2/968/Boxster.

Although I need to spend a significant amount of money just to get my 944 serviced so I will probably keep it for a few more years, on a good day it still is fast enough to scare the piss out of me! :D

Well, I have to admit that I am HEAVILY leaning toward parting out the NA and buying a 951. I talked to several people whose opinions I value on the subject: my mechanic, from whom I bought the car back in 2000; my GF; mikeCT, who has helped me tune and repair the car since before he bought his 944; my father, who helped front some money after I got in my little fender-bender back in 2002; my house-mates, whose garage this car will be sitting in.

For the most part, they all agree that parting out the NA, keeping the parts I want, selling the project parts, and finding the perfect 951 would be the best way to go. I am still going to mull it over a little, but I will keep you guys posted.

Thanks again for the imput.

Parting out a car sounds easier than it is. As we speak there are over 200 selling parts and many have more than they figured or want. You will sell the fast parts but how about the rest? Got space to keep an ugly tub laying around? Not to mention you undoubtedly will experience a bad sale at some time. Blood lettings are manditory in the salvage business!:)

Just another thing(s) to contemplate.

Dal

I can keep the roller in the garage until i pick up a replacement car. I have already talked to my mechanic about the logistics surrounding getting the roller out once I have bled it dry.

Well, how much more/less do you think I would be able to get for my car if I sold it outright?

You will have a hell of alot easier time selling the car outright, if it runs and drives someone will eventually buy it. Keyword being eventually. Based on your description in your sig i would say roughly $3500-4k if you find the right person and can hold out long enough.

scottmandue, what i am having trouble deciding on is either hotrodding the 944, JME cam, light weight flywheel, light weight pressure plate and dumping as much weight as i can off the car. Or just keeping the 944 as a daily driver and buying something else to screw around with. Be it a 968, 951 or maybe a '84-89 911.

That may be true... but the shifting problem will definitely turn off a lot of buyers. I think for MY 944, the best bet might be to part it out.

CJ:

Look at a 97-98 M3 sometime, you will be impressed. They are not nearly as pretty as a 944 (face it few cars anywhere near the price are) but they scream, have modern A/C and accessories, and have a back seat. You are starting with a 3.2 liter car w/ around 230 RWHP stock. I have had a 71 911, 83 911, 86 911, 91 911 and the M3 is faster and better handling than any of them. These words will probably get me flamed off the forum,

Steve

Steve,
Thanks for the advice... I do LIKE BMWs, but I don't love them. I love Porsches. I would most likely be looking for a nice 951, but I would consider a S2, 968, 911SC, or 911 Carrera 3.2 if the price is right. Those last three options would (obviously) be more expensive, but if they are found at a dealership, financing might be a possibility.

You're best bet isn't to part your car out, but fix the trans problem and sell outright. I can tell you from experience that what you think you will get out of all the parts and what you end up with are two different things. Then you have to figure in all your time. You might have to sit on some parts for over a year to sell them. This is just my .02.

Russell

The biggest problem I have found w/ financing on something over 10 years old is that most conventional lending institutions won't touch them. Consequently the guys that do get a premium in fiannce charges. Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing like a 911. The Carreras 84-86 are definately my favorite. I loved my 86. I got it for $15.5K when I bought it w/ 78Kmiles 4 years ago. I maybe put $2K into it in two years and sold it for $17.8K. It was a great car. An air force captain I know had promissed himself one when he made colonel. He made it when he got back from Iraq last year. I did not want to sell it but everything has a price and he is a cool guy. He buggd me for 6 months before I gave in. I know I rave about the M3 but I still drive a Porsche and am currently looking seriously at a 930. The 944 will stay, just have a friend.

Steve

I agree with the rest...if you are getting rid of the 944, then sell it as is or fix the trans and sell it. People will buy it either way. If you feel you need to swap the trans first, then swap it and sell it. That's a lot less wrenching than parting it out and easier too. If you are going to get another car, I would personally stay away from the 968 for one simple reason. They didn't make many of them and parts are much higher than a 944 (951) and harder to find. Of course if you always buy new parts, it's not such an issue. One such example is an engine....to buy a recycled engine for a 944...about a thousand dollars...for a 968 about 5000 dollars IF you can find one. If you plan to switch models check out the older 911s but personally I would buy a 951 somewhere. There was a guy that offered one here a few months back for 1100 dollars. Wouldn't start because of no spark, but the basics were already there. Of course the best option is to find one that someone has really taken good care of and you don't have to fix...you can just drive.

Well the real problem is that I am not sure exactly what the problem is with the trans. For those that don't know the details, it basically shifts hard into 1st and 2nd, and grinds going into 3rd. The shifter also has a lot of play, even though we have attempted to fix this at the shifter AND at the rear linkage.

I have been through hell trying to figure out what is wrong. At different times, we have thought it was a worn shift rod, mechanical a clutch problem, a main seal leaking onto the clutch, synchros, and finally an internal tranny problem. I don't want to have to dump money into finding and fixing the problem if I don't have to.

How much do you think I can get by selling the car outright, considering this problem?

BTW, that was post number 6001 :)

Mmm this would be nice. Price is right, too...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=230017679000&ih =013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT