Getting Disillusioned-- What Should I Do?!?

[CJFusco]

I am pretty far along getting the hard parts for my 951-into-NA engine build, but as the prospect of tearing apart my NA engine looms, I am starting to get nervous.

I am not abandoning the project just yet, but the next steps are big ones: head revalved/cleaned/resurfaced, 951 tranny installed. Well, I have been thinking...

I am afraid of 1) getting nickel-and-dimed to death - all the little things like gaskets and bolts that I probably don't have, and 2) not being able to get the engine running once i get everything, because of all the sensors and electronics that i don't understand.

I would be less nervous about this if I had a huge income; I do make okay money, but I am paying my way through grad school and would like to start putting a few grand away for a house someday, and maybe start investing.

So what to do? Should I just charge ahead with the project, take my time, and not worry so much? Should I sell the parts I have (except some of the upgrade stuff) and put that money toward a 951 or S2? Or sell the block and parts and buy a whole engine? What would you recommend?

[CJFusco]

I forgot to add this to the original post: the NA is developing what I think is suspension-related problems. I may have to replace some of this stuff, and it might be a good idea to upgrade the brakes if I am building a turbo engine. Oh yeah, it needs new tires too. Factor this in to your opinion.

[CJFusco]

Oh yeah and there is some minor rust bubbling up on the lower pass. side fender, and under where the hatch latches on the pass. side (above the "944" badge). Not very noticeable, but troubling to me.

[VINMAN]

I love a challenge. I say go for it.

[shikzachaser]

CJ:

I'm not a big proponent of dropping a project but you have definately just started forking out the cash unless you are doing all the labor. The rust would probably be the most unsettling to me. Seems like you could flip the accessories on ebay, sell the car for some coin and buy something else and save a ton of time. Probably will cost you another 5K to get something nice but you will spend that before you're done. If I had it to do again I probably would have just fixed the A/C and done a head gasket on my 84 and just bought another M3 or maybe another older 911. A mid-90s M3 5-speed convertible would be a nice car.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do:

Steve

[CJFusco]

Well... I have gotten a few "off-board" opinions... keep this in mind...

the parts I have acquired, a little at a time, over the past few months, could probably put me more than half way toward a nice 951. I have a 951 block, a 951 tranny, a 2.5" diameter cat-delete exhaust, a 951 intake, 951 fuel rail with injectors, 951 headers, and a K27 Turbo (I'd probably keep this one) stored in my garage.

Then there's the money I could get from either parting out or selling my NA...

[Dave L]

As easy as it is to say "go for it" I think you have a valid concern being nickled and dimed to death. Ultimatly this small stuff adds up quickly. Add to the fact that other things will creap up (tires, rust etc) you really have the potential to end with a rather large bill. I think I would look at the cost of the project taking into account all the little things as much as possible. Its only then that you can say if it is worth it.

If possible break the project down to more managable chunks. Suspension, engine, body etc. I think your project is great and I would hate to see it end but I think it will either cost a fortune or just be very long and involved. perhaps both.

If you do go ahead you better keep the car for the rest of your life, as much as we all like 944's there simply isnt a market for them that will pay what you put it. I think this applies to pretty much any custom.

these cars are expensive, fun but expensive.

Ahh to hell with it "go for it!"

[Eldorado]

with all the things you have, i'd sell your 944... buy a beat up 951.. maybe one with a bad engine/tranny.. get it for a rock bottom price... and just transplant everything you have into IT....

that's the most logical to me..

[CJFusco]

Good responses, guys... but I want to see votes, too.

Financially, the most sense would probably be sell the parts, part out the NA, and put that toward another car. I am sure I could get $3000-5000 in parts out of my NA, probably $2000-3000 if I sell it whole. I would like to keep the Corbeaus and some of the other goodies, though (luckily I kept the stock seats).

Well, here is what I could get for the big stuff, low-end and high-end.
951 block - $400-800
944 block - $300-700
951 head - $50-200 (needs work)
944 head - $100-300 (perfect)
944 cam tower - $50-200
951 tranny - $400-800
944 tranny - $100? (needs work)
951 exhaust - $200-500
944 exhaust - $200-400

And that's just the beginning...

[Slam]

I'd think of it this way - how much does a new car cost? Let's say around $20,000. If you can complete your project for that amount and not only have a new car (the reconditioned/updated 944) but also a great Porsche to boot, then you'd be where you wanna be. Any 944 you buy, turbo or not, will mean you're spending money. There's no way around it. If you continue and finish your project, you'll have a car that you will keep for years and years, plus your wrenching ability and knowledge will be greatly improved. I'd finish the project but give myself time. How long would it take to save for a new car? Give yourself that amount of time to build one. And buy a cheap beater to drive in the meantime.

As posted here, break down the project into manageable chunks.

If you sell off your stuff and buy another 944, will that be the car you drive for the next 20 years? You may end up in the same position you're in now.

Call us crazy, but my wife and I have an interesting car collection. I've got my 944, she's got a 924 and we share a Crown Vic for whoever's -car is being worked on and can't drive it. The project we both share is a 931, which, by the look of things, will be a race car that'll take us years to finish. In the meantime, we keep our P-cars in good shape without getting sucked into the "this car must be perfect" mindset. That's why I'd say get a beater and take your time with the project. When you're done, you'll have the only one of its kind. Do you spend time or money?

Lotta rambling. Sorry 'bout that.

[bluebullet]

to be honest, the wiring always seems like the scary part, but if you get both diagrams out and sit back with a clear head and study it, you should be able to piece it together.

As for the nickel and dime stuff, thats currently what im experiencing with my own car. You just have to sit back and take time. All big projects dont complete in a year. Stuff like this takes time, but you are usually well rewarded for your patience in the end.

[Moneyguy1]

The rust you see is only the tip of the iceberg. Examine everything carefully.

[CJFusco]

Well. Do you want to know some of what is influencing my thinking? My 944 just doesn't feel as tight as it used to. It's hard to explain, but it feels sloppy; besides the obvious stuff like oil leaks and troublesome shifting, it vibrates at certain rpms, it rattles a bit, it pulls to the right whether I get it aligned or not. I don't know. I think I have some thinking to do.

[AFJuvat]

Rust does not bode well for any 944 body.

You are between a rock and a hard place. You are going to have to tie up a fair amount of money getting this engine ready. I noticed a few bigger ticket items are absent from your list as well.

You need to sit down and think about the following:

What is my long term goal? In this case, it is building a 951 out of a series 1 body.

How much is this car going to cost me to build: Figure the cost of the car and parts, paint and body work, and any machine shop work. Take this figure and immediately add 10 - 15%

Now, could you sell the completed car for that much money?

Could you buy what you are trying to build for that much money?

Could you buy something else that would make you as happy or happier for that much money?

The answers to those questions should tell you what you need to know.

Cars are poor investments to begin with, but some can become money pits very quickly if you aren't careful

AFJ

[IanS]

I voted that you should part out the NA and parts and buy a turbo. I bought a completely running turbo and its already been a hassle getting it up to spec, where I'm completely happy with how it drives. I can't imagine starting from where you're at. Additionally, though your project is interesting, its not groundbreaking in the way a S2 turbo conversion might be. That would be a car I would consider the hassle of creating possibly worthwhile.

Besides, I've seen some very nice turbos sell for really low prices over the last year.

[CJFusco]

Originally posted by IanS

Besides, I've seen some very nice turbos sell for really low prices over the last year.

That's part of what drives my thinking. There are some nice-looking sub $6K examples going on eBay lately. Granted, that's eBay, and you won't know exactly what you're getting until you see/drive the car, but... well... let's say $7K for a nice car.

Between the parts I have and the parts I would be able to get off my NA, I might be able to come close to breaking even in buying a 951. I might even be able to pick up a REALLY nice example.

Of course, there is another can of worms to consider:

For similar money, one can start looking at 1980s 911s...

[GostRidr]

Hey CJ,

I think the most important of the posted advice is about goal setting from Juvy. Very difficult to predict the future and commit to a course of action now but that will definitely make you the happiest. Will it be a track car/daily racer/concourse winner or hand me down to your grand children?! Making the tough decisions now makes it easier to decide on what to do next.

That being said, I think your most cost effective option so far would be to part out the NA and get a 951 that needs help. That should allow you to buy a 951 on the low side and then you can upgrade with some of the parts you already have. Seems to me this would keep your getting dimed to death exposure smaller.

Good luck!
peter

[VINMAN]

Originally posted by CJFusco
Well. Do you want to know some of what is influencing my thinking? My 944 just doesn't feel as tight as it used to. It's hard to explain, but it feels sloppy; besides the obvious stuff like oil leaks and troublesome shifting, it vibrates at certain rpms, it rattles a bit, it pulls to the right whether I get it aligned or not. I don't know. I think I have some thinking to do.

Great post Slam, I totally agree!

Look at it this way, it is a 23 yo car. It is going to have issues, no matter what the make. Dont let that stuff bring you down. These cars require you to stay on top of them. But I think that is part of what makes these cars what they are and why we like them.

[Blondie]

Never were more truer words spoken..

[Porsche-O-Phile]

You could always simply keep the n/a an n/a you know. . .

Don't get me wrong, turbos are fun and all, but speaking as someone that owns two n/as and one 951, if I had to sell any of them tomorrow, I'd sell the 951. It's a pain in the ass and a money pit far worse than both of the n/a cars combined. A 951 will nickel-dime you to death - it's in their nature. They're vampires. They'll suck the life, money, motivation and time out of you until you're left with nothing.

Personally I think the day I sell my 951 will be one of the most liberating of my life. As it stands right now I'm going to fix the few little things that are affecting its sell-ability and then take that money and buy something more reliable. I'll keep one of the n/a cars thank you very much. They've proven to be far easier to work on, far cheaper to operate and maintain, and are plenty fun.

You don't need a turbo to get your jollies. Trust me - if you focus on being happy with what you DO have rather than focused on what you DON'T have (i.e. a turbo), you'll appreciate it a lot more and enjoy it.

I love my n/a. Looks great, runs great, simple to work on, doesn't cost much. It beats the snot out of the 951 in all these categories.