OUCH may have killed my car!

[924Sman]

Putting in a new oil pump drive gear and seal today and finished up and fired it up and the engine was knocking really bad so I shut it down and wondered if I need to add oil so I did and fired up, same thing. So tried again and the car will not start just crank but not fire. Only parts touched were the cam belt, front crank parts and the rotor, alt/ps belts and #1 plug.
Oil pump need primed in this case? I did not remove the pump just installed the gear, ring, washer and seal.

It seems as if the gear is not fully seated but it went as far as the other one.

What the heck did I do? All of a sudden it won't fire. Could the wrong TDC have any play in this?

Stumped and sweating bullets...

tia!
Dal

[Techno Duck]

Can you explain knocking a little better? How low was the oil level when you rechecked it?

Does the car crank over smoothly?

[Zero10]

Is the concave washer in the same orientation?
When it was knocking, how was the oil pressure?
When you installed the drive sleeve, did it go in until it was almost flush with the front seal?

Check if the engine is in time.
Look for the OT mark at the flywheel inspection hole, make sure it is perfectly aligned with the tab on the speed/reference sensor bracket, then check for the alignment mark on the cam.

[Razorback1980]

If what you mean by not firing is the plug has no spark...I would be more inclined to think that it would be in the distributor. Maybe the rotor is loose. Of course the wrong TDC may have something to do with it. but if it fired once, the TDC had to be close enough for it to run. If the timing were off by one tooth, then that may cause the knocking you experienced....recheck that, but maybe use the flywheel marks to find TDC this time along with a wooden dowel in plug one.

[ae1969]

How long has the car been sitting? Possibly the lifters could have drained out. ?

Uhmmm is that crank bolt still tight.

[callmethewander]

how much do you want for it?

[callmethewander]

seriously, it sounds like you might have put the timing belt back a little off, hopefully not enough to damage the valves! don't try to start it anymore without first making sure the timing is correct.

[924Sman]

Knocking is due to no oil circulation, the pressure sat at 2/3 bar, normal is 4.9. Oil level is normal, was a 1/2 L low.

Washer...No clue the one in it was flat and yes the seal and gear are flush.

I am going to re do it tomorrow, start from scratch. Have a better look at the timing too.

Car is daily/track.

I think the rotor/cap is shot again, I have went through a half dozen as it seems to go through them a lot. Last time it did niot start like this it was the cap and rotor. The one thing standard on my car is it blows rotors on a regular basis.

More curious if the pump needs primed.

thanks...Dal

[924Sman]

Originally posted by callmethewander
how much do you want for it?

30 Grand...and it has 125K in updates/grades! Price includes 3.7 liters of plasma.

Dal

[Eldorado]

Originally posted by 924Sman
Price includes 3.7 liters of plasma.

is the flux capacitor also included?

[Slam]

If all you did was change the pump drive gear, you wouldn't have lost prime. As suggested, I'd check the torque on the crank bolt and the cam timing as well for starters. Low oil pressure wouldn't cause knock, it'd be a symptom - knock would come as a result of oil-starved bearings wearing out of tolerance and slopping around, I'd think. When my oil pressure reads 2-3 bar, I don't get knock. I agree that your lifters could have bled down and then you'd get clatter.

Just my $.02. I know you know what you're doing.

[924Sman]

Originally posted by Eldorado
is the flux capacitor also included?

You must have a death wish! I need that for my formula 924 project!

But money talks!

Dal

[924Sman]

Update....Checked the timing and found the flywheel lock slipped causing the timing to go WAY off. Almost 170 degrees! then I figured I blew the head so I hand cranked the crankshaft and it does a full revolution so no hitting valves etc. Got the timing back and noticed the crank is not fully torqued and the oil drive is not spinning and the timing marks moved again so I re set the timing and re did the lock and leaving it until I get the oil seal in as the old new one is going to be trashed trying to remove it.

Once the seal arrives I will be doing the crank gear,seal and drive gear.

What I do need to know is this washer. Mine appears flat. Is there a way to tell which way faces the drive gear or the crank gear?

tia!
Dal

[Zero10]

Don't see why the old seal would be trashed if the crank bolt wasn't tight. You should be able to just tighten the crank bolt up and be fine.

170* out of time..... that could be trouble. 180* would probably be fine and you could maybe get the same 2-3 teeth of play around the 180* mark.....
You might have gotten lucky. Only way to know without pulling the head is to re-time it and start it up

Best of luck.

[924Sman]

Crazy thing is when I popped the hood, bonnet for you Euroguys, I could see the gear on the crankshaft where as before I recall not being able to see much of it then reached behind the gear and knew the space was to much.
I may have hit luck this time but really wont know until all is corrected. I did not allow the engine to run but a second or 2 and do know the sound of a 944 w/o oil and this sang the same tune, hopefully the bearings are forgiving as well! Time will tell, have a seal on a jetplane right now with special delivery order to just drop the parcel from the jet when it passes over my home....live in their flightpath.

As far as the seal goes this is a on the car repair so the pump is mounted and to get the gear in/out the seal has to be removed in order to be able to work the gear off the crank. With seal in there is no way to grab onto the gear to pull it out and it is a very tight fit on the shaft and area to work in as well. So ordered another one in case I trash this one.

Dal

[Razorback1980]

You really need to spin it two revs to find out if any valves are going to hit. Of course to really know if you have any bent ones will involve either cranking it or compression check. I hope all works out ok.

[924Sman]

Originally posted by Razorback1980
You really need to spin it two revs to find out if any valves are going to hit. Of course to really know if you have any bent ones will involve either cranking it or compression check. I hope all works out ok.

Sure did just that, 4 times in fact. Yep like I said it is a matter of getting it all back together and crank it up. Should just do a comp check first avoiding any further damage if not kosher still.

Dal

[Razorback1980]

Compression check will help you determine if valves are bent. If you have a gauge and someone to help, I would start with that. If not, I would just crank it. If the valves are not going to hit the piston, cranking it shouldn't hurt anything. It just may not run and you won't know if it's the timing or a bent valve. Get that great looking blonde chick from your key post (and please don't tell me that was your wife) to help you do the compression test.

[924Sman]

Just for an audio version I am going to run 3 plugs, hand crank and listen to the pop or lack of then go to the next cylinder and yada yada. All 4 should be close in sound. If it gives me 3 pops and 1 psssss may be a good indicator.

On behalf of the blonde chicks husband, no offense was taken.....per the Blonde Chicks Husband

ccal
BCH
BC

[Zero10]

The washer that holds the O-ring is not directional if I recall correctly.
As for checking whether the drive gear is properly seated, the edge of it should be almost flush with the front seal, perhaps 1/8" of protrusion, but no more.

If you can get the drive gear out without removing the front seal you should do it. Otherwise I guess you will have to replace it.
I do not recall there being significant space behind the pulleys on the crank. If you have space in there I don't see how the belts could possibly line up.