No start, daily driver 951 -- HELP!

pozican · 11-21-2006, 10:39 PM

Ok, did some performance stuff...

Wastegate shims (2)
Manual boost controller
3 bar fuel pressure regulator
951MAX chips (old chips are authority)
redid a bunch of vacuum lines

Got done, cranked the key -- No spark

When I installed the boost controller, I took one end and tapped the intake manifold for vacuum and the other end to the wastegate, and plugged the line previously going to the wastegate.

This bypasses the control valve? Is this my problem? Maybe I bypassed the KLR, is this my problem?

Bad chips? Could my chips be a bad lot?

What else should I check?

Thanks!
-Alex

Razorback1980 · Razorback1980's Garage

If that is all you did, then the only thing I see affecting the spark is the chip. You may have left some wires disconnected or the DME not grounded or something like that but the vacuum items shouldn't affect your spark. I would double check all your connections and go from there. If you don't find anything, maybe put the old chip back in to see if the spark comes back.

pozican · 11:51 PM

Thanks - Razor

Also, didn't notice anything on orientation of the chip - I put it in such that the sticker matched the orientation of the authority sticker. Is there a better way?

pozican · 11:51 PM

Swapped chips -- Got spark -- no start, gonna try it again...

[edit]
No go, no start, no luck

87944turbo · 03:21 AM

The chips have a notch that matches a notch on the base that you push them into. I will see if I can find a pic.

87944turbo · 11-22-2006, 03:22 AM

pozican · 11-22-2006, 07:25 AM

BTW - 1986 944 turbo
Replaced the chips back to authority, I now get spark, but no start.

So it must be fuel system -- I suppose I'm gonna go check the 3 bar FPR -- Any suggustions on that?

-alex

pozican · 11-22-2006, 07:48 AM

Took off the bolt on the end of the fuel rail -- Turned it over - Fuel sprayed EVERYWHERE

Fuel pump works?

pozican · 11-22-2006, 08:19 AM

Put the old FPR back on -- No dice.

Any help?

pozican · 11-22-2006, 08:22 AM

Must have something to do with my KLR, wastegate, or vacuum.

When i turn it over I'm at atmospheric pressure (on both guagues)

Is this normal?

thanks!
-poz

Razorback1980 · Razorback1980's Garage

Sorry Poz but I don't know that much about turbos. I would try to PM ae1969 or SoCal Driver and see if they can answer some of those turbo questions. When I work on my car, I generally try to do one thing at a time and then test it before I move on to the next project. That way if I screw something up (which I tend to do), I know which one to look at. I think you are on the right track...look at what you changed. Might still be something to do with the DME although I'm not sure how you would test that, but the vacuum issues will also keep things from working correctly as well. Probably should answer those questions first.

pozican · 11-22-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Razorback1980
Sorry Poz but I don't know that much about turbos. I would try to PM ae1969 or SoCal Driver and see if they can answer some of those turbo questions. When I work on my car, I generally try to do one thing at a time and then test it before I move on to the next project. That way if I screw something up (which I tend to do), I know which one to look at. I think you are on the right track...look at what you changed. Might still be something to do with the DME although I'm not sure how you would test that, but the vacuum issues will also keep things from working correctly as well. Probably should answer those questions first.

Funny you should say that -- i was thinking after I got each part done -- I should start it, to make sure... Naw, it's warm in the garage, I don't wanna open the door, it'll be fine

Yea, it wasn't fine -.-

Here's something I noticed...
I had my brother do the DME / KLR chips while I was doing vacuum lines, FPR and wastegate stuff, and when I swapped chips there was a two prong two rounds plug that was not plugged in. I think it might goto the alarm, he says that he thinks he plugged everything back in, however I think this would explain a lot.

The best way to describe the shape is like this
oo -- And in the middle of each other 'o' there is a prong, and the o's are stuck together. -- I think it comes out of the same rubbery condoit as the DME wires, not sure...

Anyone know what this could be? Thank you so much, I really want my turbo back!

-poz

ae1969 · 11-22-2006, 11:15 AM

No start on the turbo is pretty much the same as the NA. A couple of differences ......but overall the same.

Interesting that you lost spark with 951maxs chips. But anyways spark is back.

There is a systematic way to troubleshoot these scenarios but we may as well jumped ahead.

I see the list of things you changed. If you have fuel pressure, and spark and no sign of starting I would want to make sure the injectors are actually firing.

The wiring is old on these cars and shifting them even slightly can cause them to short. Any time you man handle the fuel rail becarefull with the injector harness. THe connectors look good from the outside. BUT guaranteed that they are corroded inside.

If you have a noid light it is the quickest way.

pozican · 11-22-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ae1969
No start on the turbo is pretty much the same as the NA. A couple of differences ......but overall the same.

Interesting that you lost spark with 951maxs chips. But anyways spark is back.

There is a systematic way to troubleshoot these scenarios but we may as well jumped ahead.

I see the list of things you changed. If you have fuel pressure, and spark and no sign of starting I would want to make sure the injectors are actually firing.

The wiring is old on these cars and shifting them even slightly can cause them to short. Any time you man handle the fuel rail becarefull with the injector harness. THe connectors look good from the outside. BUT guaranteed that they are corroded inside.

If you have a noid light it is the quickest way.

noid light? I know I have a timing light... Not sure what that is...

ae - Anyway my wastegate shims could have done this? I plugged the vacuum hose going to it, and plugged in (to the WG) my boost controller.... Could that mess it up? Maybe I tightend the bottom connector on the WG past 14 ft lbs?

Any idea what the 2 prong connector near the DME is?

If I have squirts coming out of the rail does that mean I can put my 3 bar FPR back in? It killed me to put in the old one!

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Okay, let's start with the simple stuff:

You have the coil wire on and you're getting spark at the plug tips, right?

If not, there's your problem (more on that in a minute). If so, check the rotor cap and plug wire order. Put the engine at #1TDC and remove the rotor cap (if you removed it as part of the work you did). Check the position the rotor and then put the cap back on, making sure the #1 plug wire corresponds to the position of the rotor (you'd be surprised how many times I've seen people get it wrong).

If there was no spark:

- Check the DME harness at the top of the DME box. It's possible it got jiggled loose when you were messing around with it.

- Check the correct chip is in the correct box (DME versus KLR). I've seen someone do this before too (not me, fortunately).

- Check the AFM sensor harness re-connected (also an easy one to forget)

What kind of chips are these again?

pozican · 11-22-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ae1969
No start on the turbo is pretty much the same as the NA. A couple of differences ......but overall the same.

Interesting that you lost spark with 951maxs chips. But anyways spark is back.

There is a systematic way to troubleshoot these scenarios but we may as well jumped ahead.

I see the list of things you changed. If you have fuel pressure, and spark and no sign of starting I would want to make sure the injectors are actually firing.

The wiring is old on these cars and shifting them even slightly can cause them to short. Any time you man handle the fuel rail becarefull with the injector harness. THe connectors look good from the outside. BUT guaranteed that they are corroded inside.

If you have a noid light it is the quickest way.

injectors click

pozican · 11-22-2006, 04:49 PM

Threw some Ether in my intake, and tried to start it -- no dice -- My tach bounces -- and the cheap timing light says no spark (I think it's broke though)

I suspect spark.

What is the AFM harness?

pozican · 11-22-2006, 05:20 PM

Tested the AFM that is near my air intake -- Works -- No spark though.

pozican · 11-22-2006, 05:22 PM

Turns out my brother put the chip in backwards. %#$* -- Will that kill the DME, is there any hope?

ae1969 · 07:31 PM

If you install the chip backwards the chip may be destroyed.
I am pretty sure you wont toast the dme that way. Even swapping KLR with DME..... but flipping the dme chip can fry it.

Anyone in the area that could lend you a dme to try?......... it will be the quickest check at this point. Otherwise we have to start troubleshooting all other aspects of no spark......... to get to the last choice being a bad dme or klr.

EDIT:

I have read of one instance that dme socket was actually installed backwards. THe notches did not match up. DOuble check that the chip notch points toward the same side of the board as the ignition driver.