Please help, i might be in trouble

[jkrustchinsky]

i have a 87 944 na , im 16 and a very novice mechanic but i do all my own work with my dad.

first thing, what is this because im going through all the leaks in the car because there is alot, and one of the lines going into this resivoir has a hole, no biggie but i would like to know what it is before dissasembly.




Now for somthing bad(maybe). my coolant is brown, and oily, it looks like this. i read somwhere that this is very bad.

[#391]

The brown thing is your power steering fluid reservoir. (FYI: It takes ATF Dexron III, NOT power steering fluid.)

I'll let the engine guys chime in on the oil in coolant issue.

[Gremlin85]

The first picture is your power steering pump resivour. Fixing the line is simple but remember that these use ATF (automatic trany fluid) and NOT regular power steering fluid.

The second is VERY VERY BAD. you have oil in your coolant which means its a possibility of 2 things.

1) your head gasket went

2) your oil cooler seals have failed and mixing each fluid.

Check your oil too, there is a very good chance there is coolant mixed in.

I am betting it is the second one, oil cooler seals.

DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR.

You might need new bearings. How long has it been like this?

There is a plethora of information on this site and Clarks-Garage.com

1987 is a very prone year to the oil cooler seals failing. I will be doing mine shortly.

Do not, I repeat, do not attempt to drive or start the car.

Help is on the way!!!

[jkrustchinsky]

aww ****.... i have driven the car with that brown **** in the coolant probably 10 miles, not to mention i bought it like that so who knows. ive got about 300 bucks saved,

i need help on what i need to do. thanks for that info, its greatly greatly appreciated

[Gremlin85]

Originally posted by jkrustchinsky
aww ****.... i have driven the car with that brown **** in the coolant probably 10 miles, not to mention i bought it like that so who knows. ive got about 300 bucks saved,

i need help on what i need to do. thanks for that info, its greatly greatly appreciated

WHOA! you bought it like that?!?!

oh geez.... ok.

go to www.clarks-garage.com

once there, on the right are menus to choose from. Click on Garage Shop Manual.

Click the leter 'O' in the alphabet.

Click on the first choice under "oil cooler"

it will read something like 'General Information and Seal Replacement'

start with that and we will be here to guide you.....


on a down note... I'm not too sure $300 will be enough.... Parental Loan???

[Gremlin85]

Question...

Did the previous owner say anything about that or was he hoping you wouldn't notice?

[jkrustchinsky]

im sure he was hoping i wouldnt notice, it all makes sense now, i know he knew about it. i paid 1500 for the car, this is my second 944, i had an early model and i sold it to buy this later model,

i put a shopping cart together based on the items said needed from clarks garage and its only about 40 dollars. what else needs to be replaced? josh

[Aerkuld]

Like Gremlin said, the line from the power steering resevoir is an easy fix.
Look here;

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/944M/POR_944M_SUSstr_pg1.htm#item4

It's either the rack to resevoir or the pump to resevoir line that you need. These are very easy to replace having just a hose clamp on either end if I recall correctly.

The oily coolant isn't so good and depending upon whether you have run the car like this or not makes the problem relatively easy or potentially nasty.
If when you check your oil it looks like this too, that is it has water in it, and if you have run the car for any length of time with it like this there is a high probablity that the is bearing damage to the crank and rod bearings. You may be lucky, but if you aren't you will want to replace the bearing shells.
The first thing to do will be to take the oil cooler housing off and replace the seals. That is the easiest place to start and to be honest is a good idea anyway. Here are the parts...

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/944M/POR_944M_ENGoil_pg2.htm#item5

Look for the complete gasket set, item # 10-0914-165-M30. Then here is the procedure for replacing...

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/lube-01.htm

Don't worry about being a novice mechanic, this is a fairly straight forward job.
Depending on whether you want to risk it, you could change the oil cooler seals, then change the engine oil and run it to see if there is any nasty engine noises, but be prepared to change the bearing shells in the bottom end if it sounds like a bag of nails. You never know, it could be your lucky day!

Hope it works out for you, and don't be afraid to come back here and ask for help.

[Gremlin85]

Originally posted by jkrustchinsky
im sure he was hoping i wouldnt notice, it all makes sense now, i know he knew about it. i paid 1500 for the car, this is my second 944, i had an early model and i sold it to buy this later model,

i put a shopping cart together based on the items said needed from clarks garage and its only about 40 dollars. what else needs to be replaced? josh

There is a very good chance the crank bearings need to be replaced which means diggin into the engine.

This all adds up with seals and necessary parts....

The more I think about it you could probably do this for $300.

I've been saving for months just in case a worst case scenario were to happen an I ruin the engine...

That guy should be kicked in the nuts.

[Aerkuld]

Mostly agree with Gremlin, but the $300 sounds a little tight. That said please don't skimp on parts. Get Porsche parts or decent parts from someone such as our host. Parts like the hoses you may find decent used if you look around. For the small amount of extra money it will probably save you in the long run. Even if it means taking a bit longer to finish your car it is worth it.
Bottom line is that for $1500 it sounds like you have a pretty sound car and even if you end up spending $500 on it it will still be worth what you paid once its running strong.
Persevere with it, you will look back on this with a great deal of satisfaction sometime in the future.

[jkrustchinsky]

heres the dipstick, i cant really tell if it has coolant in it as i dont know the orignal color of the oil. but the color matches that of the fluid inside of the coolant resivoir. heres some pics.









the parts arent as much as i thought they would be,

[toolboy62]

Oil looks good to me, I'd try just fixing the problem that is causing them to mix, flush it well, and then see if you have an issue. Worst case you'll have to tear it down but try the easy stuff first.

good luck,

nate

[jkrustchinsky]

so heres the conclusion( correct me if im wrong )

1. buy oil cooler seals as per clarks garage
2. tear down
3. install
4. reassemble
5.flush cooling system
6.change oil and oil filter

then see what happens

thanks for all the help im ordering all the stuff from pelican, your help is greatly appreciated. thanks josh

[Aerkuld]

Looking at the condition of the oil on the dipstick I think you might have dodged a bullet.
Given that, your conclusion is good and you should be well within your $300 dollars. However - if the oil cooler seal repacement doesn't fix the problem you will be changing the head gasket, but I think there is a strong chance that you will be lucky on that one too.

While you're ordering parts from Pelican it is probably worth the 10 bucks or so for a new timing belt and get that replaced too. The last thing you want is to have an old timing belt break and bend all your valves. Look on the $10 as cheap insurance. Incidentally, the proceedure for changing that is on Clarks Garage too.

Let us know how you get on.

[Gremlin85]

I'm releaved on how clear your oil looks. You did indeed dodge a bullett here.

Get those seals in. Use good quality oil and flush that coolant when done.

I will do everything I can to help you on this project and I'm sure there are others willing to do the same.

ASK QUESTIONS if unsure.

What about your belts? Were they done recently?

P.S. I love the color of your '44.

[jkrustchinsky]

im going to do belts and rollers next, since this happened i think i will do them right now with the oil seals.

since ive gotten the car all ive done so far is go through the front brakes and bearings. zimmermann cross drilled rotors with new pads sensors and cleaned and regreased everything. new battery, new tires, easy stuff like that

the cash i had saved up was going to buy new rear brakes next week so i could start driving the car everyday.


anyway , you guys are the greatest help i could have gotten, im going to start ordering everything in a few days. thanks josh

[dogslovetrucks]

Wish I could be as sunny as everyone else here but I sincerely doubt you will be pulling this off for $300. Did the engine have any running issues prior to your discovery? When it's warmed up, were bubbles blowing up into the tank? If no, most like was the gasket in the cooler. Very common failure and not too expensive but potentially very bad if it's been run that way for ANY period of time. Pull your oil filter and carefully inspect for material. ANYTHING odd may be an indicator that your bearings are shot. Ethylene glycol (aka antifreeze) does not mix well with your bearings and tends to destroy them. Also, recommend checking your oil sending unit as antifreeze tends to not agree with it very much either. Swap your cooler gasket, change your oil and change it again. I believe there is some anti moisture additive that would help displace the water. Worse case- 944 motors are not that expensive.
Keep us posted...and +1 on the timing belt!

[SolReaver]

OK, Welcome to the club kid,
OC seals are a common problem, no biggie.
The procedure is outlined in Clarks pretty well. I suggest pressure washing or otherwise cleaning the cooler housing previous to the dissasembly and capping the sender switch to protect the leads before removal. Be careful taking it all apart as there are spacers/shims in there. you will want to put them back where they came from. This is a messy job and sometimes it is hard to clear the cooling system of bubbles when you refill it. It is booked for 90 minutes, it takes longer than that. The coolant goes everywhere, the oil goes everywhere as well. Clean the living hec out of everything before assembly and while it is out you might want to pressure test the OC.

Timing belts, If you don't have some documents that prove the belts are under 30K or 3 years (whever comes first, even if it has been sitting in a garage) do em and feel secure driving the car. Otherwise, have a spare head ready for the inevitable

[HondaDustR]

Originally posted by Aerkuld
...
Look for the complete gasket set, item # 10-0914-165-M30. Then here is the procedure for replacing...

If you get your seals here, get the individual parts separately. It's half as expensive as the complete kit. Just double check that you got everything before you order.

[Aerkuld]

Originally posted by HondaDustR
If you get your seals here, get the individual parts separately. It's half as expensive as the complete kit. Just double check that you got everything before you order.

Fair comment.

I have changed the link in my original post to the correct page. If you look under the section for 'Oil cooler and seals' it lists the contents of the complete kit as follows:

1 Oil Filter/Cooler Housing Gasket, 944-107-147-03
1 Oil Cooler to Housing Seal, 944-107-153-02
1 Oil Cooler to Housing Spacer Washer, 944-107-154-00
2 Adjusting Shims for Oil Cooler, 944-107-219-00
2 Oil Cooler O-Rings, 999-707-043-40

Cost for this is $27.

Good call for a guy on a budget HondaDustR.