front adjustments

tnporsche · tnporsche's Garage

My 944 na has started to pull a little to the right.

I know the best thing would be to take it to an alignment shop ,,,,, but before I did that what experimental adjustment would you guys think could bring it back to straight? Or can I do more harm than good? They way i figured it the worse I could do was cause tire wear or more to the right and if that happened then it would have to go to the shop.

mmm how did this post twice (I tried to del duplicate post cant find link to do that)

flash968 · 10-19-2007, 08:57 AM

pulling is almost always castor - take a look at your castor blocks - if you have a leak somewhere, it is VERY common that it will saturate the rubber in the block and cause it to fail - no amount of adjustment will resolve this

onZedge · 10-19-2007, 08:58 AM

Did you hit anything? Is the caliper sticking? If not, check the wheel bearings first.

tnporsche · tnporsche's Garage

yes, I think we hit a hole somewhere along the way.

mmm where are the castor blocks?

I'll go out and jack it up to check for loose in anything.

bearone2 · 10-19-2007, 09:07 AM

check air pressure

flash968 · 10-19-2007, 09:25 AM

castor blocks are under the car, at the rear of the lower control arm

tnporsche · tnporsche's Garage

Ok I have her on jack stands.

There is noticable movement on the driver side tire/wheel top to bottom. Wheel bearings? How much movement is too much? Should there be any at all?

THe passenger side has movement also but very little compared to driver side.

I would say movement is 1/8-1/4" out and in at the top and bottom

I dont see any other loose stuff except the torsion bar (right name i hope) has a completly gone rubber gromit on passenger side.

flash968 · 10-19-2007, 10:27 AM

that is HUGE - there should be none at all - you need to address that free play IMMEDIATELY - do not drive the car until then - it is unsafe

the sway bar bushing is a cheap and easy thing to fix - if it is gone, it is likely because you had a leak that contaminated the rubber and caused it to swell and fall out - a good inspection of all rubber needs to be done - replace any wet or worn bushings, but not until you fix the leak, unless you want to do it again next year

tnporsche · tnporsche's Garage

ok pulled hub, the bearings look ok. I repacked them, I had some white lithium grease on hand so I used it. After using it I noticed the warning on the label. DO NOT USE ON DISK BRAKE WHEEL BEARINGS. LOL great! Do I really need to take it back off clean it all out and replace with approved! grease?

I was able to get the lock nut all most a half turn tighter than it was when it came off. I did not get real aggressive with it, just a few taps with screw driver as i turned the hub.

I checked the play top to bottom, its the same.

Possibly not tight enough?

I was told at the parts store to tighten until it stops spinning and back off a little.

Is that right? Recommendations?

flash968 · 10-19-2007, 11:57 AM

there is a very specific procedure in the workshop manual - it's pretty odd, but after a few tries, it works

as for the grease, white lithium is not for use on wheel bearings - it's too light, and brake dust contaminates it

HondaDustR · 10-19-2007, 05:28 PM

If the free play only happens when rocking it top to bottom and not left to right, check the strut (including the bearing on the top of it), or maybe the ball joint. Jack it off the ground, rock it and look for whats moving and not moving. In my experience, a loose wheel bering causes free play in all directions.

I had a problem with something loose and clunking, and had lots of up and down free play and no side to side play. It was originally a shot strut insert. I replaced them, and it came back later, and turned out I didn't tighten the strut cartridge retaining cap enough and it backed out a bunch. The strut cartridge was able to shift around inside the tube, making a lot of racket over bumps.

tnporsche · tnporsche's Garage

I didn't think of that.

I checked again and movement is top n btm but none at front n rear. The bottom bolts to the strut were loose. I tight-ed them and loose is gone.

The pass side were a little loose, not as much, but it still has a little movement top n btm, none frnt n rear.

Is there anything to check on the top of the strut for loose or wear?
Or any other recommendations

Thanks

tnporsche · tnporsche's Garage

I didn't think of that.

I checked again and movement is top n btm but none at front n rear. The bottom bolts to the strut were loose. I tight-ed them and loose is gone.

The pass side were a little loose, not as much, but it still has a little movement top n btm, none frnt n rear.

Is there anything to check on the top of the strut for loose or wear?
Or any other recommendations

Thanks

onZedge · 10-21-2007, 07:46 AM

The botom bolts on the struts are used to set the camber. They should be very tight - not loose at all. If they were loose, you now need an alignment because your camber, and by default your toe, is out of spec. The alignment shop can tell you if anything else is in need of attention.

HondaDustR · 10-21-2007, 05:10 PM

Yeah, they should be at 74 ft-lbs if you have a torque wrench, which is pretty tight. The camber will shift under heavy cornering if they're not tight enough. You could probably get a right angle ruler to at least get it in the ballpark to be driven to the shop.

Gordon Rankin · 10-21-2007, 11:23 PM

Ok, while were on the topic of alignments, beware of the shop that tells you that you will need a 4 wheel alignment at an exhorbinate cost. Unless you have really hit something in the rear, hard, you should not need a 4 wheel adjustment. A good front end adjustment should cost around 50.00 and actually is a good investment as it will save your tires and peace of mind.

flash968 · 10-22-2007, 02:00 AM

while it is less likely to throw the rear out than the front, it depends largely on your ride height - if that is off, you will need a 4 wheel alignment - i have yet to see a car that has gone a year without an alignment be anywhere near correct - it is pretty rare that i actually find a car with the rear ride height correct - a half inch off in the rear and you are looking at significant changes in the front angles

i think a lot of it is the fault of the shop

when doing an alignment, be sure that the weight of the driver is in the seat, and there is a half tank of fuel, and the car is loaded how it will normally be driven - this will set your nominal condition, and minimize changes in geometry from loading and unloading

be sure the shop has the tools - there are special ones for these cars many shops do not have

make sure the machine measures in tenths of a degree (not fractions) and has been recently calibrated

the best deal i have found from a shop with a good tech is $140 for a 4 wheel - i'm pretty picky about my setup - i'm down to making tenth of a degree adjustments now - not sure i would even go into a shop that charged $50 for a front end - where the heck is that? i'm not far from you and should probably check that shop out - i'm all for saving money, as long as the guy knows what he is doing

Gordon Rankin · 10-22-2007, 03:59 AM

Flash.. Couldn't tell where you're from by looking at your sig.
The fellow I go to is in Mission Viejo off Crown Valley and the 5 freeway. He was recommended by my Tire guy who has been doing all my tire work for over 30 years. And I first heard about this fellow around 6 years ago (wheel alignments). The normal 2 wheel adjustment is around 40.00 (one year limited warranty), but I had some money then and got the "lifetime", 80.00 deal. He gets to check and tell me that the alignment is good and sends me on my way, once a year or whenever I feel something is off. I was a bit suspicious at first but got a second opinion a couple of times and it all checked out. So, if you are really interested, call me and I'll look it up.

Gordon
949-235-1583.

flash968 · 10-22-2007, 04:05 AM

lol - i am off that very exit - i'll be calling you today

by the way, i thought i was the only lunatic up this early - santa anas keeping you up too?

onZedge · 10-23-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flash968

...a half inch off in the rear and you are looking at significant changes in the front angles...

Bob, I do my own alignments at home. It is a real pain-in-the-ass, but I get the satisfaction of knowing I can change things myself without shelling out more $$$. When dropping the rear, what adjustment sequence works? I realize that changing rear camber affects rear toe and vice-versa and it takes multiple measurements back and forth to get it right. (I have the correct tools) My target is to use factory settings BTW.