Price check in aisle 951

[Paul_Heery]

Never be in a hurry to buy or sell a Porsche.

Heeding the advice that was given to me many years ago before I bought my first Porsche, I am now about ten months into my search for my next car. I had been looking for a normally aspirated 1985.5 or later 944. I posted about my search last month asking for opinions on a couple of candidates that I was considering in this thread. Well, I decided to pass on both of those cars for varying reasons.

Well, good things come to those that wait. Or, does it? I've come across the following vehicle. It has not been listed for sale anywhere, it came to my attention by referral. Now, my mechanic has been over this car very thoroughly inside and out. Let me provide the details, including the good and the bad, and I ask that you provide your opinion as to the value.

1986 951

• Description – 944 Turbo with 83k original miles with few options. Here are the codes from the car.
  • C02 - Catalytic Converter (in place)
  • 158 - Radio Blaupunkt "Monterey" (replaced with later Sony)
  • 383 - Sport seat-left, with electrical height adjustment (replaced with standard black leather seat in excellent condition)
  • 387 - Sport seat-right, with electrical height adjustment (replaced with standard black leather seat in excellent condition)
  • 418 - Body side molding (in place)
  • 474 - Sport shock absorbers (in place)
  • 533 – Alarm system (in working order)
  • 650 – Sunroof (in working order)
• Exterior – Crystal Green Metallic (LM6Y)
  • Original paint in good condition
  • Three minor dings/scrapes
• Interior – Black leather
  • Seats in excellent shape
  • Carpet in hatch area shows some fading from the sun
  • One crack in the dash
• Wheels/Tires
  • Original PDs in great shape
  • Needs new tires
• Mechanical
  • New clutch
  • New/rebuilt torque tube
  • All new belts
  • New water pump
  • Mechanic says that it could use a new starter
  • Needs front hood struts

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger. Any opinions regarding value/price?

[ERAU944]

i'll reply with the played-out "it's worth whatever you're willing to pay for it" but if i had a guess i'd say the 8k-9k range if it's really that nice. have any pictures? i'm very interested to see a green 951.

big plus' on the new clutch, belts, and water pump. starter is no big deal, and neither are hood struts.

bummer that it's missing the sport seats. i have sport seats in my '84 and i LOVE them!

[CJFusco]

If you're gonna buy a 951, now is definitely the time - prices have been on the rise over the past year or so.

As long as the car has its service records, has had its timing belt replaced twice over those 80K miles, has received new rollers, probably a new clutch, and probably a new water pump... and if the car hasn't been in an accident or a flood... and if the paint and interior are in genuinely good shape...

$9000 probably sounds about right. Offer $8000 or thereabouts and see where it will go. My car had a few more miles, but was nearly aesthetically perfect inside and out, so I paid the premium of $9K.

[Paul_Heery]

Thanks.

I'm going to swing by tomorrow and I'll take some pics.

[callmethewander]

please do! I want to see that color also.

[bearone2]

Originally Posted by ERAU944

i'll reply with the played-out "it's worth whatever you're willing to pay for it" but if i had a guess i'd say the 8k-9k range if it's really that nice. have any pictures? i'm very interested to see a green 951.

big plus' on the new clutch, belts, and water pump. starter is no big deal, and neither are hood struts.

bummer that it's missing the sport seats. i have sport seats in my '84 and i LOVE them!

383 and 387 were listed as sport seats.

[hpservertech]

Not sure how far your willing to drive, but there is a fellow pelican that is selling his 951 in St. Louis. I've met the guy and could give you an unbiased opinion of it if you wanted.

[ERAU944]

Originally Posted by Paul_Heery

[*]383 - Sport seat-left, with electrical height adjustment (replaced with standard black leather seat in excellent condition)[*]387 - Sport seat-right, with electrical height adjustment (replaced with standard black leather seat in excellent condition)

they sure were listed.... but i didn't miss the part about them being replaced with standard seats.

[JoshB]

I would get a compression and leak down test done - fairly easy to do. Also - have the car washed and check for water leaks in the interior. Look at the battery grounding cable - pull a hard pipe and see how much oil is in there as well. Personally I would probably be a little more aggressive on what I offered for the car - like something around $6500. It is a unique color but not highly sought after that I know of. If anything it would make the car worth less.

Another thing to check is the power steering system - most likely the rack needs to be rebuilt and the lines are leaking from the tank.

[JoshB]

On an 80k 951 if the only think wrong your mechanic can find on a car with bad hood shocks and bad tires is a possibly bad starter I would look for a new mechanic. I guarantee that there is something else wrong - hot side cv axle, tie rod ends, caster blocks rubber shot, cracked fuel lines, a-arm ball joint shot, sloppy shifter, ac compressor out, rust in exhaust tip, rotted j pipe, cracked header mount etc.....

[ERAU944]

Originally Posted by JoshB

On an 80k 951 if the only think wrong your mechanic can find on a car with bad hood shocks and bad tires is a possibly bad starter I would look for a new mechanic. I guarantee that there is something else wrong - hot side cv axle, tie rod ends, caster blocks rubber shot, cracked fuel lines, a-arm ball joint shot, sloppy shifter, ac compressor out, rust in exhaust tip, rotted j pipe, cracked header mount etc.....

good point

CV axle - definitely an item to listen for during the pre-buy test drive

tie rod ends - i assume you mean inner. ask your mech. if he checked them for play (he should know how to do this, and should have done it in the first place). if he didn't find a new mechanic.

caster block rubber - ask if he checked

cracked fuel lines - a MUST unless you want a 951BQ. not too difficult to replace either. the small one should have already been replaced once under recall, but subsequent replacements are up to the owner. if ANY of them are hard or brittle at all, REPLACE. many people frown on it, but i've used high pressure fuel line with double hose clamps on the longer hoses.

Ball joint - listen going over slower speed bumps for clunking. if you hear it, time for new ball joints/a-arms. big $$$ hit, and good price reduction point

sloppy shifter - easy fix, but good enough to reduce the price by about $100.

a/c compressor out - not so likely to be true and even if it doesn't come on that doesn't mean it's shot (more than likely the low pressure switch). be prepared for at least $500 cost to fix whatever issues, should the a/c not work

rust in the exhaust tip - the only thing this says is that it hasn't been driven enough, or that it was washed not too long ago. my '84 has a bit of rust in the tip, since i both washed it, and it hasn't gone anywhere in the better part of a year

anyhow. i tend to agree with jc, it seems like more COULD be wrong, just make sure you ask your mechanic about these things if they seem off on the test drive. if not, don't go offending your trusted mechanic.

[Paul_Heery]

I got some pics this morning.

[Paul_Heery]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

If you're gonna buy a 951, now is definitely the time - prices have been on the rise over the past year or so.

Originally Posted by Excellence Magazine, April 2008

We've said the 944 Turbo offers a lot of bang for the buck in the past, but it might finally be reaching its limit - old age and depreciation aren't helping considering its mechanical and electrical complexity and often costly repair bills.

What's your impression of BA's statement in the latest Market Update? Has the value of the 951 peaked?

[Razorback1980]

I agree with Mike's first statement....it's worth what you are willing to pay for it. I have never seen that color before but I like it.

[JoshB]

Originally Posted by Paul_Heery

What's your impression of BA's statement in the latest Market Update? Has the value of the 951 peaked?

Your first advice "Don't buy a porsche in a hurry" should probably be followed by this "Don't buy a porsche thinking of it as an investment" Not sure if that is where you are going with that statement but thought I would throw that out. Especially if you are hiring someone else to do the work for you I can guarantee that with a 951 you will invest a good bit more in keeping it running than you will ever sell it for. IMHO the only Porsches that approach investment quality would be the 911 73 and 74 carrara rs, 924 carrera gt and the 914-6.

[2Tight]

Everyone has covered the standard warnings. I can only add one thing: check that mileage very carefully, any torque tube that needed a rebuild at 80K is either the wrong mileage, drove for years on a bad clutch, or the TT was underwater at some point. I have a 145K and 187K 951 and both TT's are still doing fine.

[ronin]

Originally Posted by Paul_Heery

What's your impression of BA's statement in the latest Market Update? Has the value of the 951 peaked?

no, the situation illustrated will only separate the wheat from the chaff. there will be a thinning of available cars due to attrition (cars wrecked, or parted due to poor maintenance) along with a small segment of cars that are kept in excellent shape. those cars will attract the "collectors" or anyone who is able to maintain them, which will induce the prices of those cars to rise steadily as always