Less Than a Month After Finishing my Head Gasket Project - Clutch Problem?!?

[CJFusco]

Okay, so my car's engine is running beautifully, but it seems to be developing a problem that I REALLY don't want to deal with right now... but anyhow, here goes....

It started with a slight whirring noise whenever I would depress the clutch pedal. This happened a few times, for a few days in a row, last summer - but the problem went away and didn't come back until now. I thought to myself, "hmm, sounds like the throw-out bearing might be getting a little worn"; a trusted mechanic seconded my guess and told me not to really worry about it, that even worn-out throw-out bearings can outlast a fresh clutch disk.

Well, a couple days ago the whirring sound got louder and more noticeable. And I actually noticed that I could hear it a little when the car was idling. Push down the clutch, and it gets louder. Put the car in gear with the clutch pushed in and it gets louder still. Let up the clutch while driving and everything runs and sounds normal. The problem seemed to be at its worst when the car was cold, and got a little better as the car was driven.

Well, today it got noticeably worse. You could hear the whirring at idle, then something would squeak from roughly the clutch area, and everything would sound normal again -- until I push down the clutch pedal, then I get the noticeable whirring sound again. I take off in 1st and the sound gets louder. I let off the clutch and the sound goes away. Driving with the car in gear, everything runs and sounds as it should.

As I said, at first I thought it was the throw-out bearing, but now I wonder if there isn't something wrong with the transmission itself. As of now, the car is driveable, but I am hesitant to do so because the symptoms seem to get worse every time. Any ideas?

[VINMAN]

It sure sounds like the t/o bearing to me.

[CJFusco]

So what in the heck do you think I should do about this?!? It would have been great to know that this was gonna be a problem back when I had half the engine out of the car to begin with...

[earlr85944]

just to rule it out check the free play adjustment

[John_AZ]

[QUOTE=CJFusco;3943233]
It started with a slight whirring noise whenever I would depress the clutch pedal. This happened a few times, for a few days in a row, last summer - but the problem went away and didn't come back until now. I thought to myself, "hmm, sounds like the throw-out bearing might be getting a little worn"; a trusted mechanic seconded my guess and told me not to really worry about it, that even worn-out throw-out bearings can outlast a fresh clutch disk./QUOTE]

Listen to your "trusted mechanic". Run the car like you did last summer and wait for the problem to go away again. When my rubber disk went out last year, I began to overthink the repair and thought the entire clutch and transmission needed work.
Has the PP, TO and disk been replaced or is it the original?

Good luck CJ

John_AZ

[phoenix_iii]

[QUOTE=John_AZ;3943646]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

It started with a slight whirring noise whenever I would depress the clutch pedal. This happened a few times, for a few days in a row, last summer - but the problem went away and didn't come back until now. I thought to myself, "hmm, sounds like the throw-out bearing might be getting a little worn"; a trusted mechanic seconded my guess and told me not to really worry about it, that even worn-out throw-out bearings can outlast a fresh clutch disk./QUOTE]

Listen to your "trusted mechanic". Run the car like you did last summer and wait for the problem to go away again. When my rubber disk went out last year, I began to overthink the repair and thought the entire clutch and transmission needed work.
Has the PP, TO and disk been replaced or is it the original?

Good luck CJ

John_AZ

John_AZ, what did you do when the rubber went? Symptoms? and how did you know?

[CJFusco]

I forgot to mention that I can also feel vibrations through the clutch pedal, but you probably figured that...

Last time this happened, the problem seemed to disappear for awhile when we had a spell of rainy days in a row and I drove my other car for awhile (the Olds, at that point). I'm not sure why letting the car sit awhile made the problem (temporarily) go away - does the TOB rotate in such a way that it might settle in a "less worn" position (a la CV Joints) and not make noise for awhile?

I am going to check the service records to see when the clutch was last replaced.

[CJFusco]

It doesn't look like the service records have any indication of the clutch ever being replaced.

At 105K miles, this sounds like something I may need to do soon, non?

[hpservertech]

105k is about right. They can last longer though. It does sound like your starting to lose the clutch.

All in all it's relitivly cheap in parts (around $600 with new bolts, etc). it's just a royal pain to do while the engine is in the car.

[bholmes]

Sounds like the throw out bearing to me too, the mechanic was right about it being able to last along time. It'll sound like absolute crap once it is totally out and everyone will look at you like you're driving an old chevette, but that's a b*tch of a job, do the disk while you're in there, you don't want to do that twice.

Does it seem to anyone else that the forum has contagious problems? Didn't I just read another clutch post? I just did my clutch last month and I think I saw a few other clutch posts in the last month or so.

[bholmes]

Forgot to answer your last two posts LOL

In my experience my clutch went totally out at 108k. It sucked, I was absolutely stuck and had to trailer it home (again). i'd start planning on it if nothing more, I know how it goes though, after one big job you're just not ready for another.

However, as I haven't rode in/listened to your car I can't speak with authority, but i think that you should be OK to cripple around for a while. have you noticed any drive train slop? Like you hit the gas and feel kinda a slapping or bucking feeling? If so your clutch is in "limp" mode and you need to change it pretty soon. Otherwise...drive it a while.

[CJFusco]

I haven't noticed any serious drivetrain backlash, just a little judder now-and-then when I take off in first gear.

I sent the PO an email asking if, to the best of his knowledge, the clutch has been changed. I am thinking it's on the original setup and needs to be done. I am gonna let the car sit for a few days (it's supposed to be cool/rainy for a couple days in CT, and I am going away for the weekend, so it's no big deal), and see how the problem is after that. The problem subsided a bit when I let the car sit for a few days before, so I might as well try that approach again.

Yes, it does seem like problems are contagious on this board. When I started my head gasket project, there were 2 or 3 pelicans who had just finished theirs, and 1 or 2 others that were about to start...

[mhart]

When my clutch went, it was extremely obvious...shifting was very difficult (it seemed like every other shift when i went to go back into gear, the gears would grind) and if I tried to rev the engine past 3k or so, the car would shake violently and lose power

I had hoped that maybe it was just a slave cylinder or something like that, but when the mechanics looked at it, they found a hockey puck-sized chunk of the original rubber had come out from the center

So i put in a Sachs spring centered clutch and its been smooth since then.

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by phoenix_iii

John_AZ, what did you do when the rubber went? Symptoms? and how did you know?

phoenix_iii, On ramp I-17 North, 1st, 2nd.....big rumble rumble vibration. Shoved shift lever into 3rd-could not shift into any other gear- and I mean shoved. 16 miles later and after a few rolling stop lights I was home.
The inspection hole had chunks of rubber disk 1/4 inch and bigger. The bigger pieces make it impossible to shift. Porsche did design the rubber disk to crawl home if done carefully.


If you procede to do clutch. If you take the flywheel off to resurface you have to get new bolts. The old ones stretch. You have to replace the rear main seal. Press it in carefully and make sure it is all the way in. Get the PP, disk and flywheel balanced or you will feel vibration in the shifter or worse. Read the procedure carefully and have quality hex and triple square wrenches or you will strip the pan head bolts. And SOOOOOO much more agony.

Good luck,

John_AZ

[lowbob84]

Well hopefully all works out. It would totally suck to have to lay up your car for another month so you can do a clutch job. On the other hand, CJ, I think I see your new book: "101 Projects for your 951". I mean, you've already got a big project written: How to replace your headgasket. Anyways, I hope for your sake that you don't have to do your clutch yet. But if you do, I'll follow your work closely. I've got an original clutch in mine, with 103k on the odometer, and I figure I'll probably have to do clutch soon!

[CJFusco]

Well, I'm giving the car a few days' rest to see where it's at next week. I doubt the condition will improve, but I also doubt that I can afford to buy a clutch kit right now... but I will keep you all posted.

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by lowbob84

On the other hand, CJ, I think I see your new book: "101 Projects for your 951". I mean, you've already got a big project written: How to replace your headgasket. A!

Trust me, the idea has crossed my mind; I've actually come pretty close to emailing Wayne to ask if I would be stepping on any toes if I pitched the book idea to his publisher.