sure there Peter Zimmerman, whatever you say

[Obin Robinson]

get a load outta this brain case:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/youwrite.php
944 – Not Affordable, Maybe Not Classic

A distant second to the 911.

Dear SCM: This is in reference to David Slama’s Affordable Classic article, featuring the Porsche 944, that appeared in the October, 2003 issue on page 21.

In 1996 I wrote an article for a southern California chapter of the Porsche Club of America about 944s. At that writing I called the 944 the bargain sports car of all time. [b]However, because I’ve always felt that its in-line four-cylinder would have made a better boat anchor than a powerplant, my comments were always Simply put, a 944 cannot be maintained in your back yard. The 944 will not reward you with scintillating performance if you change its oil, tie up its exhaust system with a coat hangar, or stick bubble gum on a leaky oil seal. 944s are mechanic dependent to the ridiculous.

The 944’s engine is an “interference” unit, which means if the camshaft stops turning while the engine is running, the pistons and valves will collide. The resultant repair requires cylinder head removal. The timing belt is responsible for keeping the cam and water pump turning. That belt, experience has shown, must be replaced every 30k miles, or five years, whichever comes first. It also must be adjusted 2,500 miles after replacement, and at its first 15K mile service interval. The tool used for belt adjustment costs $500. Granted, ’87-’91 models use a spring-loaded timing belt tensioner, but even then one would be foolish to gamble on the belt reaching 45k miles.

Okay, what about that water pump? Well, that little guy got real comfortable cruising along for 30k miles, with its drive belt (timing belt) set at spec. Replacement of that belt causes pump trauma, because an unbelievably tight (pre-stretch) setting is used at installation. Often that super-tight belt places so much lateral pressure against the water pump pulley it kills the pump. I’ve seen this happen in only two days, to a pump that turned smoothly and had no trace of coolant seepage when the belt was replaced.

Cool. Take the whole mess apart again, and replace the water pump. Hopefully the pump pulley didn’t seize, causing the belt to break, or loosen the belt sufficiently to allow the cam to jump time. NOTE: The water pump must be replaced with the timing belt (at an average $1,000 parts and labor for both).

In addition to the timing belt nonsense, add the cost of oil leak repairs at the front of the engine (the crank pulley and both balance shafts are plagued with periodic leaks from seals and O-rings), and a 944 can surge very close to $2,000 in maintenance every 30K miles. By the way, those balance shafts are almost always mis-timed, making the little four-cylinder engine feel like an anemic cement mixer, aka 924.

Another problem area is the oil cooler housing. What a bizarre arrangement. Porsche stuck an aluminum housing on the right side of the engine block and put an oil-cooler inside it, allowing engine coolant to circulate around it. It can leak internally, allowing coolant and oil to mix, damaging the connecting rod bearings before you see the telltale traces of oil in the car’s coolant reservoir.

Clutch replacement is a major, and expensive, project, eight hours labor plus about $900 in parts on non-Turbo models, twelve hours labor plus parts on ’86 Turbos and ten hours labor plus parts on ’87-’89 Turbos (Turbo parts are approximately $1,000). Motor mounts, also expensive ($600 for the pair including labor), are in at least the fourth redesign, and the oil leaks we’ve discussed rot out rubber sway bar bushings, steering rack boots and other stuff.

The above-mentioned issues do more than scratch the surface, but they don’t tell the whole 944 story; there’s more. My response to Mr. Slama’s article is this: If Porsche had never built the 911, no one today would regard that company as a builder of remarkable cars. The 944 could never have gained the lofty perch occupied by the 911, the world standard by which all sports cars are judged. Without the 911, and its illustrious race history, Porsche may not have even survived the hilarious 924 era.

Granted, the 944 has a place on Porsche’s family tree, but in my opinion no 944 model has earned a place, 911 or no 911, on the perch reserved for remarkable cars; i.e., the R, the RS, the 934, the 935 and all their beloved little brothers, 38 years of lovable, drivable, reliable street-version sixes.—Peter M.

Zimmerman, is the founder of Red Line Service and hands-on owner of that Porsche-only Santa Monica, CA repair shop for 25 years and the author of The Used 911 Story.

---

anyone else think this guy is full of it? my favourite part is where he not only shows his 'expertise' by claiming that the cars are mechanic-dependant, but then goes on to compare an $8,000 used Porsche to a $500,000 Porsche race car.

the worst part is when people actually TAKE the advice of guys like this. it does everyone a major disservice. care to mention how much it would cost me to roll my car into your ripoff shop to replace 4 spark plugs, a cap, and rotor? i bet it's incredibly difficult compared to the tune up on a 911 turbo, and a whole lot more expensive to do the pump and belts on a 944 than the chains and tensioners on a 964.



obin

[Sabyre]

He's Biased.

[TCMdocs944]

Yeh, biased to say the least.

Does he think all backyard mechanics us "bubblegum" to fix oil seals?

Besides, I'm a frontyard mechanic

[ChrisBennet]

Sorry, I own and maintain both my 944 and my 911 and I mostly agree with Peter. I have the factory manuals and the tools and I think my 911 is just more reliable and cheaper to maintain than my 944.
-Chris

[Z-man]

I'd like to tell Mr. Peter Zimmerman where he can stick his bubblegum!

But I think I'd get banned for saying that!

-Z-man.

[TCMdocs944]

I think if the 44 had been around as many years it too would have become more reliable.
We cannot compete with that many years of R&D.

Also, many of these terrible repairs are (or should be) done after many thousands of miles. It just so happens after 20 years the number is up for many of them. I will fix my PITA "trouble area's" love my 44 much more than any 911 (well, old 911)

[scheistermeiste]

so is it possible you ban yourself??? anyways we dont use bubblegum, we use SOCKS and ducttape!

[scottmandue]

Let me be the first to say...
Mr. Zimmerman


This sort of 944 bashing only perpetuates the stereotype that 911 owners are a bunch of grumpy old turds (they are not) if you don't like the 944 series don't buy one.

[Blackfoot]

i can't imagine why you care so much what this individual thinks.

________________
i've been a bad boy

[Z-man]

Originally posted by FR Wilk
Obin, small typo. Zimmerman is a VW specialist.

VW specialist, 911 specialist: same thing!

-Z-man.

[MrPants]

Originally posted by FR Wilk
Obin, small typo. Zimmerman is a VW specialist.

no wonder he loves the beetl... uh i mean 911

[Z-man]

Originally posted by FR Wilk
***, man, I got my “interference unit" stuck in the Xerox again!

Hey, where you stick your unit is no one's business!

[epbrown]

Is the February issue out already? I didn't get mine...

I think Zimmerman makes a couple of points in his article, but the fact that so many people do successfully care for their 944s themselves sort of puts a dent in his argument. I can't imagine there are any 944 owners that run to their mechanic for every little thing. And the only 911 that matches his description is the mighty SC

Emanuel

[epbrown]

Check the .sig - I'm covered :P

[..P]

I don't know how ole Zimmerman could have written that article with his nose so far up in the air, or...........well, let's just leave it at that.

How many times was the 944 the sports car of the year?

I guess it doesn't matter that automotive journalists for twenty years have lavished praise on the 944 for balance, handling, steering, beautiful bodywork, and legendary longevity.

Sheesh, this guy is so biased, I don't think anyone could tell him anything. One thing for sure, he would be the last person on earth that I would take my 944 to for service. With an attitude like that, he's better off working on cars without a radiator.

Truth be known, if the guy didn't have 944s to work on, his business probably wouldn't have survived, and neither would Porsche. What a sourpuss, or just puss.

P

[..P]

Need service on your 944, don't go here, they don't like em.


Peter M. Zimmerman, is the founder of Red Line Service and hands-on owner of that Porsche-only Santa Monica, CA repair shop for 25 years and the author of The Used 911 Story.

Red Line Porsche Service
720 Colorado Ave.
Santa Monica, CA 90401-2610
(310) 450-7414

[epbrown]

Though I don't care for the tone of his letter (and I finally got my copy of SCM today), Zimmerman's complaint is the amount of maintenance the 944 requires, and a claim that said maintenance can't be done by a shade-tree mechanic. On the first point, he's accurate - the water-cooled Porsches require more maintenance than all but the most recent 911s.

His second claim is proved wrong on this board pretty much daily, and even if it weren't I think the 944 still makes sense. I paid one 15% the price of my 911 for my 944, and it's about 90% the performer (and in some ways better). It will cost less to maintain year-to-year, so it's cheaper to run. So in 5 years I'll have to drop a grand and get the timing belt replaced and in another 5 years a bit more to do that again and the water pump. Two grand out of the twelve grand I didn't spend on another 911 means I'm still ahead of the game. Put the money I saved in an index fund and the capital gains alone will cover the difference. What's the issue again?

There's no need for the character assassination here - the guy's entire argument is flawed...

Emanuel

[Dark Skies]

Back in 95 I bought my 944 with pretty substantial mileage on for £5,500 It's been round the clock three times (best as I can work out) now. It's on the same bore and rings it was on from new and still doesn't smoke and passes the MOT year after year with no fuss. The only dealer work that it's had done on it is belt changes. Everything else I've done myself with very little trouble (save a few quirks I've had to ask about here). Maintenance-wise it's been no more demanding than any of my other water-cooled cars. Spares are plentiful (pattern parts are fine for most of my needs) and not too pricey compared to modern stuff - often cheaper.

With the car's condition and interior I could probably pull about £2,500 - £3,000 when / if I sell it later this year

Pretty much pisses all over this Zimmerman's argument really.

[fty]

Ive been beating on my 944 for 3yrs now with no problems except for a few electrical gremlins...silly basad he is...

[jts924s]

He's mistaken about the back-yard mechanic thing and the lack of respect for the 944's performace. But...

Like it or not, if the 911 didn't become the success it did, Ferry would have had to sell out to VW by the early seventies. Would the 914 and 924/944 lines still have the appeal as a potential classic with that badge?
Tip your hat to a early 911, you owe a lot to it.

...And he's correct about the clutch, oil cooler, and timing belt. Not in that these repairs can't be done by the average guy, but that the system was not engineered with shade-tree maintenance in mind. Porsche probably assummed that these cars would be dealer maintained.