new to the 944, have some ?'s

[FoFiddy]

****i posted this on rennlist as well, sorry to those who check both boards. just trying to get as much info as i can****

I am the new owner of one of those "needs tlc" 944's and I have a few questions.

the car: 85 n/a that runs strong but sports a badly faded earl scheib paint job. Took it to a porsche shop and found out it needs:

-Oil cooler seal (done by same shop. hurt the wallet!)
-Tie Rods
-Motor mounts
-has transaxle leak coming from plate on pass side and there is a stripped bolt in there that needs retapped or heli coiled.
-Pwr steering pump leaks BAD.
-needs fr struts and lots of bushings

the plan:
-The car runs well and shifts well, but the tie rods make me feel like it's unsafe to drive. So that is the first thing I plan on doing.
-I am considering a manual rack and do away with all the probs associated w/pwr steer sys.
-trans leak will wait until I get it registered.
-struts and motor mounts at the same time as soon as I come up w/some cash.

Questions:
-Are the tie rods the same for pwr rack and a manual rack?
-I didn't see a tie rod section at Clarks Garage, what are the tricks for doing tie rods?
-Does Auto zone sell an inexpensive manual rack as well as the pwr one?
-What are the best jacking points for the car? Best place to place jack stands?
-What shocks and struts to get?
-without jacking car, how can you tell if trans is LSD? I didn't see a code for that in the vin.
-can non lsd trans be converted to lsd?
I am trying to get the most out of what i spend, cuz I don't have a ton of $$ to spend on the car soooo:

***What is the best value to be found (cheapest price and quality part) for tie rods, motor mounts, manual rack, struts, shocks and bushings?
***Has anyone had the leak in the trans or the stripped bolt? If so, how was the fix?

Thanx, Randy

[Mask of Destiny]

Originally Posted by FoFiddy

-What are the best jacking points for the car?

There's a reinforced section under the middle of the rocker panel (the body piece below the door). There's a diamond shaped indent in the rocker panel to indicate where this reinforced section is.

Best place to place jack stands?

For the front, under the frame rails. For the rear under the torsion bars. There's a picture floating around here somewhere that highlights these areas (and a couple of alternates as well).

-without jacking car, how can you tell if trans is LSD? I didn't see a code for that in the vin.

There's an options sticker in the trunk. Pull back the carpet to find it. 220 is the option code for an LSD. Though there's no guarantee the transmission wasn't replaced with a non-LSD one. If you put the rear on jack stands and turn one of the wheels, the other should turn in the same direction if you have a limited slip diff unless the clutch packs are worn out.

[John_AZ]

Randy, Welcome to the Pelican Board.

WOW! You have extreme enthusiasm. And from what you have posted you have done some searching and have a very good idea of what needs to be done.

You can help me if you begin on one area of repair first.

From what you have posted, you want to start on the front end. This can easily be a $1000 parts cost. Front struts should be an easy start. IMO go with Bilstein or Boge/Sachs (OEM). Koni are very expensive and KYB are very inexpensive and may not last long.
Get all the front rubber bushings. With your PS pump, hoses and rack leaking. Drain the fluid, regrease the rack gear shafts and enjoy the feel of a stiff manual rack until you can replace with either a rebuilt PS rack as you have posted or swap with a manual.
If you feel the tie rod ends are dangerous, these can be replaced with any number of aftermarket makers. You do need to get an alignment or carefully do a front DIY-check tech section-top radio buttons^^


These are just suggestions for the front. Pelican Parts, or sponsor, has very good prices. I think you will go over the $6000 mark if you continue to have a shop do the work.

You need to avoid any "new" damage. Did you get any receipts from the PO? Did you have the shop do a complete PPI?
DID YOU REPLACE THE CAM BELT?

The next area and post to cover would be the rear.
The rear transaxle plate on the passenger side is sealed with Permatex-no "O" rings so that would stop the leak. The striped bolt is an easy common fix. It sounds like another perspective buyer knew to check the rack and pinion for missing teeth, steel shavings and slop. Many other things to check in the rear as well.

Again Welcome
John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S

[mikepellegrini]

Welcome to the forums.

Manual and power steering racks use completely different tie rods. So if you're gonna change to a manual rack, don't buy new tie rods for your power rack.

Changing tie rods is very simple. You undo the bolt, then pop off the tie rod end with a pickle fork - then just unscrew it from the rack. Or, you can get a tie rod end puller (AutoZone "rents" them for free - it does make things easier).

If you do replace the tie rods, you need to get the car aligned afterwards.

Changing the rack isn't hard either, and I've seen rebuilt racks for as little as around $300. http://www.carsteering.com/addtocart/1986_Porsche/944/Manual_Steering_Rack/80-70163.html or AutoZone: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsProduct.jsp?displayName=Rack+%26+Pinion&itemId=prod10854&navValue=14600163&parentId=cat10006&productId=60948&fromString=&itemIdentifier=60948_0_0_&filterByKeyWord=&categoryNValue=&isSearchByPartNumber=&categoryDisplayName=Suspension&store=3375&skuDescription=Atsco/Rack&fromWhere=&searchText=&_requestid=214143

If you change out the rack you also have to replace the steering shaft (which runs from the firewall to the rack) - the manual and power shafts are different lengths.

If it was me, I'd keep the present rack - find out what's leaking and fix it, and install new tie rods - overall, it'd be easier and probably cheaper.

If your car is an early 85, then you can replace the inserts in your stuts - a bunch cheaper than replacing the whole strut assembly.

For struts, I used Sachs inserts (under $100 each) in my 83 and they're okay, but if you want the best go for Koni's. But Koni's will usually cost more than double the price.

Our host here, Pelican has great prices and great service for most of the stuff you need (other than the racks - Pelican's prices for racks are kinda high).

Paragon's having a sale on Koni inserts right now - $180 each for the adjustable sport insert - a really great deal. http://www.*****************.com/Porsche_944_Suspension_Shock_Strut_Sway_Bushing_s/451.htm Koni's really are the best.

LSD - look in your trunk (under the back carpet by the rear hatch latch and you can find the option codes for your car. It'll say if it had a LSD installed.

For jacking points, I usually jack the front under the point where the rear of the control arms attach to the frame - then place jack stands under the cross member.

In back, I use where the front of the control arms attatch to the frame. Never jack the transaxle - they're not meant to carry the weight of the car like that.

[SolReaver]

John is right. (again) When was the Cam and Balance belt last replaced? 3 years or 30K whichever is first, you gotta replace them or you run the risk of a very bad day. Why did you have a shop do the OC seals? That is such a FUN job! Seriously though, you have to work on the car yourself or have a lot of money to give to the mechanics. Even worse, many mechanics will not do a good job on these cars and charge you lots of dough in the process.

DO not switch the rack. The leak is either a hose, a fitting, or the Pump seals. A quick and relatively cheap fix. Even if the rack itself leaks it is not that hard to rebuild em or get a boneyard rack.

Helicoil the trans, or cold bond it. No real trick to the tie rod ends. Pickle fork, Big hammer, penatratin oil and heat work well. Count the threads before removing and sometimes you can put it all together without an alignment. Replace the boots while you are there

[FoFiddy]

Hi All,
Thanx for all those great responses! I did a little research after I posted these questions and found that the tie rods are different and that the steering shaft would need to be changed if I went to a manual rack. That may be more work than resealing all the ps stuff. My pump leaks badly, but I am not sure about the hose or fittings. I already removed the ps steering belt and it's not too bad as a manual. Will i induce excessive wear on my rack if I run the ps rack as a manual?

What brands and about how much for new struts that would be comparable, performance wise, to the koni insert set up?

Heli coil or retap for the stripped trans bolt?

I plan on doing all subsequent work on the car. I had Beck's Porsche check the car over and tell me what they felt it needed. So Sol, is the OC reseal a pain? If it is, i feel a little bit better about the $$ I spent there.

thanx again for the warm welcome and all the helpful info. I'm going to be here for awhile posting lots of "newbie style" questions! I am a dirt bike guy and have some wrenching experience, but this is my first project car and I am very excited and can't wait to learn how to work on and then drive the pi$$ out of my "new" Porsche!!!!

[FoFiddy]

Oops, I just saw what Sol suggested for the stripped trans treads, so disregard that question.

Here's another: Is the "cam belt" the same as the timing belt? The shop said the timing belt looks great and does not need replacement.

[kilodawg]

Yep....

[SolReaver]

The OC job? Nothing too difficult about it. It is just messy and time consuming. Picture yourself underneath the vehicle for a bout an hour while coolant and oil drip down constantly. It is the Porsche equivalent of the Chinese water torture. Opinions differ as to whether or not the ex headers need to be removed. Mine did. It is a messy job to say the least. I would have paid halfway decent money to have been spared the human drop cloth experience. That was a while ago and I am still getting small amounts of residual oil in the overflow. I figure it is good for lubing the waterpump.

There are 2 belts. A Cam belt (CB) and a Balance belt (BB). Due to design constraints the motor has two belts in the space where 1 should be. As a result they are thin belts. I respect the opinion of any other mechanic brave enough to work on these cars, However, I feel compelled to advise you to replace the belt unless you have documents to prove that the belt is less than 3 years AND 30K old. I understand that it may look fine, and it could be in great shape. The difficulty is that these cars are notorious for CB failures and such failures have a very good chance killing the car. Common failure methodology is that the belt strips out on the inside which is difficult to check for. The BB is usually done at the same time While you are in there as are rollers, seals, and the Waterpump.

Needless to say the TB job can get pricey, depending on what you replace. This is why documentation is important. It is nice to know how old the components are. There is also the matter of tensioning the belt correctly. Most people use a tool of some sort.

Please let us know what documents came with the vehicle and whether there is any mention of when the last service to the timing belts was done and what parts were replaced. The concern is that you may be blissfully unaware that you are driving on borrowed time.

[jerry920]

Welcome to the Porsche world!

I bought my first 944 last fall and I found the posters here to be a fountain of knowledge. Try the search function first, and bookmark Clark's Garage. http://www.clarks-garage.com/

With a decent tool box, a little elbow grease, and a lot a patience you'll be rewarded with one of the most fun cars I've ever driven.

Spring is here!

Don't forget to post some pictures. What part of what country are you in?

[SolReaver]

Yes, Clarks is great. You should also get some decent manuals, a set of triple squares, clean your grounds, and check your CV bolts for tightness. (they loosen up). Bring all the PM up to date....Belts, hoses, filters, etc.