Intalling rear main seal troubles
 

Ok, so I am on my second rear main seal. I f'd up the first one. How the hell do you guys get these to go in evenly? I just tried to put the seal in (with a piston ring compressor and a block of wood) and it went all the way in on one side, and the other is sticking out. How do I get the seal back out without damaging it?

rubber mallet gently going around the edge around and around and around.

u can try slide hammer to get it out...no guarantees though

rubber mallet to start it and then pvc pipe with a cap.

Read post #9 and look at this picture:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/504453-rear-main-seal-question.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1244635976.jpg

GL
John_AZ

Does it matter if the front of the seal (facing the flywheel is damaged? I got pissed and did this ---->http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...4/IMG_0814.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...4/IMG_0815.jpg

It is flush with the casing

What have you done? :confused:

I suppose that if you thought the RMS would not leak, maybe you would be correct. I have not tried this method of "upsidedown" or in your case UP side IN.
It may actually work.

I doubt it because of the method of insertion. Is this your second seal?

It has to go down to the base of the seal cavity. There is a ledge on the outer block about 1/16 wide that is the bottom for the seal outer edge. I do notice your block does not have my "bevel" but you MUST BOTTOM the seal below the block and not flush.
The Pelican OEM KACO seal--bottom--would work best for you. It does not have the "RIBS" on the "bottom" half and would start easier. Both will work.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1244767585.jpg



Take a screwdriver in the screwdriver access slot and remove the seal. You cannot save the seal.

Begin again. The memory of getting to the seal is not worth the $20 it will cost you for another seal.

GL
John_AZ

Hahaha! Are you telling me that I put this seal in backwards? This is the first time I have had to replace a RMS. I was under the impression that the outer edge of the seal has to be flush with the bevel on the block? So do I need to press the seal in until it bottoms out?

Glad you are smiling:D

Here is the typical "bevel" I have marked in red:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1244769813.jpg

Your block does not show this but.......

You press it in until it bottoms out..

From an earlier post of mine:
FWIW
Installer error on any seal is the major problem. Like KuHL 951 posted, using Curil T (Pelican $10.75) will seal the RMS against leaks (applied to the seal outer edge). If you are out of Curit T and want to finish, WD-40 on the outer seal and sprayed in the cavity will also work and it gets gummy after a while to seal better.

The crank surface has to be wiped clean of all leftover grease and dirt.
You have to oil the inner seal and crank surface with a thick oil or the seal will burn out fast.

The seal has to fit to the bottom of the recess. Especially with the Kaco seal. The Kaco seal is smooth on the outer surface half way-this goes in first. The outer half has "ribs". The seal must go to the bottom of the recess "below" the block/casing "bevel".

You can get a professional seal press or go to Home Depot and get a 4" screw in sewer PVC cap. Lightly sand the bottom to smooth rough production edges and cut out the center square portion to fit over the crank end. If you have properly oiled the seal inside and out as mentioned above, it will slide in easily with gentle tapping. The block bevel will let you know if you have a correct 360 degree fit and not have an edge that is "off"

If you are not through, any RMS will leak.


GL
John_AZ

Correct press in until the seal bottoms out------below the bevel if you have one.

GL
John_AZ

I got a hoot out of this thread. Glad you are smiling too and yes, you put the seal in backwards. That is one reason you had such a hard time installing it...I'm surprised it did go in, what size hammer did you use? :)

It's, by far, not the worst mistake I've seen. It's good you can sit back and laugh!

This is a picture of the opening the seal goes in. I have pointed to the ledge inside where the seal has to bottom. I have also circled the bevel again for reference.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1244781651.jpg

GL
John_AZ

Shogunther,
The PO of your car had the same problem. In your previous post ..."look what I found" your picture showed no RMS. Here is your picture.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/476629-removed-clutch-look-what-i-found.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1244807214.jpg

Every thing looks normal. Make sure you have no burrs in the screwdriver recess area or poking up towards the crankshaft, clean the opening and crankshaft. Use liberal amounts of WD-40 or Curil-T. Oil the inside lips of the RMS with thick oil. Buy a 4" screw in sewer cap at HD-take your old seal along for measurement. Gently tap the RMS in. The KACO seal without lower ribs will start easier.

Good luck
John_AZ

So the seal should seat in with gentle taps? I am hammering this sucker and it wont go in any further, but it is still sticking out a little.

snap a pic!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...4/IMG_0819.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...4/IMG_0820.jpg

Im about to buy one of those freakin Arbor tools!:mad:

shogunther,

I measured my "old" OEM seal I just took out of my 1987 924S-it is ~12.2mm thick measured with a cheap Harbor Freight caliper. It is red/rust in color and has ribs top to bottom. The seal prior to removal was "almost" flush with the block-just a tiny bit below.

The OEM KACO seal Pelican sells and the one I just installed in April is a little less than 12mm thick and has ribs only on the top/outter area. My conclusion/reasoning was that KACO wanted a fresh surface on the crank to seal, a little deeper if you follow me, and that is why the seal is ~12mm thick. You can see it in my earlier seal picture.

I also measured, again roughly, the depth of the seal "ledge" from the block face to the ledge.
It is about ~14.7mm. The block face to the bottom of the screwdriver slot is ~7mm.

I do not know what brand of RMS you are using. If you measure the seal that you put in upside down and you got it flush, the seal you have just put in should fit.

Yes, the Arbor tool Pelican sells would do the trick. Did you get the 4" sewer cap to help you install this seal?

GL
John_AZ

I don't want to start any other issues, but from the last picture it looks like the seal is deformed, like it is too large a diameter. Perhaps it is the wrong seal?

Don't get frustrated...

I would do as John suggested, measure the seal you just put in....it may be in as far as it goes.

I finally got the RMS seated. Now another problem.....I was torquing the flywheel bolts and one snapped. Do I need to remove this or will it be ok with 8 bolts? What a PITA this has been!

I would replace it, and I would buy all new bolts. The chance of another one snapping is probably high when a load is put on them. Even though the load doesn't theoretically stress the bolt, I wouldn't risk it.

I think you already know my answer. The flywheel bolts stretch when torqued to 65 foot pounds-final torque. Any bolt that stretches should be replaced and not reused. You have just proved my point.

Purchase 9 new FW bolts. Remove the 8 installed and hope you can get a vice grips on the broken bolt. If not, you have to drill and use an easy out or whatever you can. If you snapped one bolt, and I guess they were the old bolts on the flywheel and not new bolts you just purchased, the others are also in bad shape and have been used more than once. If another snaps off a head when you engage the clutch all hell will break loose.

GL
John_AZ

john,

These were brand new bolts that I installed. Can the other 8 be reused? They were torqued to spec. Already

Hi shogunther,
Sorry I thought the FW bolts were used, I have changed over 10 various Porsche clutches and a few domestics and have never broken a new FW bolt.

Do you have a daily parts truck from Pelican arriving every day? You're not getting your seals and FW bolts from "Honest Al's new and used Porsche Parts" in Indio are you??? :)

The bolts you bought new, these were Porsche spec and not from Ace hardware right? Has your torque wrench been calibrated in the last 10 years? I usually strip the serrated flutes on the triple square/cheesehead tool or the bolt before I reach 65 foot pounds.

You may be safe to reuse the other 8 bolts. There is a ongoing debate on whether you can reuse. 50/50. Its your call

Since you are near to putting on the bell housing, I will offer another suggestion.
Cut out the reference sensor area of the bell housing. You will be able to set the reference sensor gap before you put on the bell housing. Makes it real easy, especially if you have to go back in in the future.

And if you want to replace the reference sensor bracket pan head bolts with regular metric bolts. This tip is from George at www.944ecology. You can then use a 1/4 wrench in the future.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1245243679.jpg

GL
John_AZ

Wow - I'm just about to change my pilot and thrust bearings on my clutch. I thought I would do the RMS while I'm in there - like you do.

Good tip about getting new bolts - I'll do that. I never realised the RMS was such a pain to install. I thought I read somewhere that the Kaco OEM seals were prone to early failure. Anyone know if there is any basis to this?

John,
I bought the RMS from Carquest, it is a Victor Reinz seal. I bought the bolts from 944online or Pelicans...I don't remember. Anyways, I would like to thank everyone for being so supportive and encouraging. John, you have been awesome...thanks for everything

shogunther,
Glad to help.

I want you to have fewer problems for the remaining steps.

You have new pilot bearing, fork rod bearings, new TO guide tube, a new TO or I have repacked my TO-once. Put proper grease where ever WSM says.

I am sure you will use some type of clutch alignment tool. When you get to the point of shoving the torque tube in--it still will be difficult to align.
The trick is to put the clutch slave in-----
BUT NEVER press the clutch petal if it is out. You will need to get a $25 rebuild kit because you ruined the inside seal when the slave rod overextends.

OK you have the slave bolted in. Either use a stick to press the petal or your SO. This releases the PP against the disc and the TT shaft will slide right in.

If you need to bleed the clutch for some reason, I have used this method and with good results. You could also just buy a Motive Power Bleeder for $60...

If you do use this method, there can be NO pressure on the clutch petal to clutch MC. I disconnected the clutch MC shaft at the clutch petal. It needs to be reset anyway per the Haynes manual. If there is any pressure on the Clutch MC the fluid will not flow to the brake reservoir.

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Back at the transaxle,

DO NOT over torque the shaft bolt with the security wire. If you break off this head it is at least 4 to 6 hours to drill out.

Have a good set of metric hex to torque the shaft coupler. Do not strip the bolt heads.

There is more but keep on posting.

GL
John_AZ

I was looking at the bolt that snapped and it looks like it snapped flush with the crank end. Is it ok to try and drill it with the flywheel still attached? Either way I don't have any room for the drill...the torque tube is in the way...I think I need to remove the torque tube so that I have more room. Before I do so, are there any other suggestions?

Is the TO guide tube essential? I bought everything new except for the guide tube....I thought the old one was reusable??

Well that wasn't bad at all. I got the screw out no problems:) now i just have to wait for the bolt to be shipped to mehttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1245259881.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1245259903.jpg

Great work! ...kinda risky with that small of an ez-out but I'm glad it worked. If you ever break an ez-out, you'll know what I mean when you try to get it out. Not that I have ever done that or anything.

The TO guide tube.
Take the old one out, wash in brake cleaner or better.
Check the crimp for cracks under the base and the weld on top.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1245270981.jpg

and check for wear on the sides where the TO slides.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1245270932.jpg

If you buy, stick with the INA/Porsche style-the dirty one in the picture.

I bought an off brand cause it was sooooooo cheap and did not use it-top pic left
$2.57. Two Dollars, 57 cents. It did not have the strong crimp at the bottom like the one on the right.

If yours looks unblemished, again your choice.

GL
John_AZ